Points: Sam Langford's Power: Real or Myth?

[StarshipTrooper]

To me having lost 10x to Harry Wills say's a lot,and it should have been 12, but in 2 of the losses, Will's got careless after being way ahead and thought he would go for a KO and Sam landed what could be considered a lucky punch both times, either way he did lose 10, he also lost to Mcvey & Jeannette, they all beat each other up, & if he was that awesome, he would have beaten all 3 of them 9 outta 10x but he didnt, he also beat Joe Gans a LW at the time while he was at least a MW, and Gans just fought a tough bout the nite before, took a long train ride to face Sam & fought him the next day & by most accounts Gans won as many as 5 or 6 of the 1st 7 rounds & many thought Gans still deserved the decision, also Gans was sick, so based on that, a well rested Gans easily wins, so I rate Gans over Langford, if he can't be a tired, sick LW while weighing 160 or even KO him early, then to me that along with his 10 losses to Will's & losses to Mcvey & Jeannette, take a lot away from his so called legend, he probably deserves top 10 ranking in at least 2 Divisions still, but not as great as many like to claim.

You're getting to be a broken record with the Langford hate. You've already had things 'splained to you on at least two different websites and you're too ******ed to get it.

Poet

[Scott9945]

You're getting to be a broken record with the Langford hate. You've already had things 'splained to you on at least two different websites and you're too ******ed to get it.

Poet

And don't even start with Aaron Pryor...

[Greatest1942]

I'm sure all of you guys have heard the tales of the power Langford possessed, the purpose of this thread is to get a gauge of how powerful this man really was, and if he deserves his legendary status.

The Ring Magazine ranked Sam Langford as only second to Joe Louis on their list of all time power hitters an incredible award. Beating great punchers such as Ketchel, Foreman, Moore, Wilde and Fitzsimmons.

Their is also many legends of Langfords power(most coupled with his skill), most of these however cannot be traced or are traced to more than one fight. They are most likely true but, there is no way of ever knowing.

Some of these stories include:

It was early in the fight and as he went out for a new round to take place Sam touched his opponents gloves, his opponent confused replied "This isn't the last round Sam" Sam, without missing a beat replied "it is for you."

Before a fight Langford asked his seconds to measure up his opponent, after doing so. He then moved over to a section of the ring and asked them to put the tape down. Once they had done that, he asked his corners to make chalk markings in this area the same size and width as his opponent. The crowd was perplexed but, it became apparent what was going on after Langford knocked out the opponent, and he landed in the exact spot he had marked had had marked down.

Another few stories, which have been confirmed and can be traced to certain fights are as follows.

Before the first Flynn fight(I'll confirm this later) Flynn's manager was rambling on about how "My great fighter could never be beaten by a ******" During the fight Langford skilfully manoeuvred Flynn towards the ropes in front of his manager, knocked out Flynn who fell on his managers lap to which Langford quipped "Here's your great fighter."

Langford was asked to use special white gloves against the Lang in their fight. This was in a bid to help Lang win as the judges would see the white gloves land more clearly on Langfords darker skin. This wasn't needed as Lang lost by DQ(presumably in an attempt not to get KO'd) but, during the duration was pounded by Langford and touched the canvas more than once. After the fight, Langford noticed his punches weren't having the usual effect, and ripped open the gloves and found the usual horsehair padding had been replaced by rabbit fur. Although he was still able to destroy the decent chinned and much heavier Lang. The referee he was happy it ended on a foul, as he though Lang could have been seriously hurt.
Here is footage of this first 2 rounds of this fight.


We also have video evidence of Langfords power, him making a ragdoll of decent chinned Lang as mentioned earlier, making the very tough Jeanette into a human yo-yo and him pounding the average chinned Flynn into submission.
A compilation of all these fights, and the highlights is in the following video.


Too analyse his power, we can also view Langford's record which also indicates his power. His overall record(boxrec) comes to 178 official contests with 129 knockouts. This value expressed as a percentage, gives him a total knockout percentage of: 72%. only a bit lower than Louis' which comes to 78%. Also, when making these values. You have to take into account potential carrying on Langford's part, this is (arguably) more likely from Langford than any other champion in history.

When you include who is included in those knockout victories, it's even more atonishing knocking out many iron chinned fighters, while weighing much less. As mentions earlier he KO'd on numerous occasions(so it was no fluke) the very tough, durable and chinned Joe Jeanette while weighing much less, the same can be said for Sam McVey and Harry Wills. The latter who was KO'd when Langford was fat and blind.

There is also accounts from other fighters, my favourite being the ones Willis gave, about his knockout defeats to Sam Langford.

"I still don't know what punches Sam used to knock me out. When the fourteenth began I was going easy. Sam was in a bad way. I backed him around the ring trying to set him up for a one punc hfinish. His eye was bleeding and the last thing I remember was having him against the ropes just about 5 feet from the corner, It must have happened then"

"In the 18th Sam was in a peck of trouble and when the bell sounded for the 19th I was after him again. I figured if I could get him into the corner I could finish the fight. That was all I could remember. He must have caught me as I rushed in. I don't know how long I was unconcious but, it must have been quiet a while."

Sam Langford was also shamefully avoided by Johnson who stated:

"I'm not fighting against that little smoke, he has a chance against anybody"

The bolded part of that statement indicates that Jack respected Sam's power, and felt it was large enough to KO any human being.

In conclusion I feel Langfords power is definitely not over-rated and he deserves to be up there with Ketchel, Louis and co. If not besting them.

Barnburner.

Actually in terms of pure one shot KO power Sam was better than Ketchel and atleast equal to Louis...did he have the combinatio punching of Louis no...but one shot power hell yea..

But I will like to sign off with this great article :-

The Afro American – January 7, 1956
Joe Woodman calls Langford ‘Greatest that ever lived’
By Sam Lacy - AFRO Sports Editor
NEW YORK – “There is no doubt in my mind that Sam Langford was the great who ever lived.”
Thus spoke Joe Woodman, silken-haired boxing manager who in 59 years’ association with the fistic world must be endowed with a thorough knowledge of the sport.
Mr. Woodman returned the AFRO’s call when he got back to his Broadway and 79th Street apartment from Stillman’s gym on Friday afternoon. The 81-year-old helmsman is still active and goes daily to the gym to attend his stable of three young fighters – heavyweight Roy Bullock, middleweight Eddie George and featherweight Harry Smith, the latter white.
“I managed Langford for 19 years,” Mr. Woodman declared, “and they are 19 years of which I’m extremely proud.
“I knew him better than any man living, and I have never known a better man. He was born on March 4, 1886 – I know that to be a fact because Langford and I were like brothers from 1900 to 1919.
“People who write that Sam didn’t know how old he really was, don’t know what they’re talking about. If he had lived, Langford would have been 70 years old in March.
“They also say he had 642 fights; he didn’t. Sam had 352 bouts while I had him and 59 under four or five other fellows during the five years he fought after we split up. That’s a total of 411.
“We broke up in 1919, when he started having serious trouble with his eyes. I wanted him to stop then but he insisted he wanted to keep on.”
Was it true that he had trouble getting fights for Langford, and that Sam might have been a champion except for the color line?
“Yes,” replied Mr. Woodman, “every word of it is true. Nobody wanted to meet Sam, champions least of all. They were all scared of him – including ‘the great’ Jack Johnson.
“Unfortunately, there was a lot of sentiment against mixed fights in those days, and because of that thousands of people missed a chance to see the greatest fighter who ever lived.
“Langford was compelled to campaign for the most part among men of his own race. The result was that there were five really great fighters who had something like 100 bouts in their own group.
“These were Sam and Joe Jeannette and Sam McVey and Harry Wills and Peter Jackson.
“Nobody else wanted to fight Langford, and I guess I don’t exactly blame them. He could box and he could punch. And he couldn’t be hurt.
“I’m sure if he could have gotten the fights, Sam would have been champion of any division we picked for him.
“He beat Joe Gans in a non-title fight when he was only 17 years old. And he was only a middleweight when he fought fellows like Johnson and big, 218-pound Joe Choynski.
“Oh yes, and when he fought Jack Johnson and had him on the floor (in Chelsea, Mass., April 26, 1906) Langford weighed only 153 pounds to Johnson’s 190 – that’s 37 pounds and Jack was almost seven inches taller. (Johnson was awarded the decision – Ed note).
“But Sam was not only great as a fighter,” Mr. Woodman concluded, “he was as fine a person as one is ever likely to meet.
“I guess it’s a little stagey (his term for corny) to say it, but I feel that knowing Langford and having him as a friend was the richest experience of my 81 years.
“Nobody ever wanted for anything if Sam knew about it and it was in his power to get.
“People say he squandered most of the money (estimated at $200,000) he made. I say much of it went to friends and acquaintances who were down on their luck at a time when it wasn’t hard to be down.
“As for Sam as a fighter, I don’t believe the man ever lived who was better to work with.
“All he wanted to know was when and where our next fight – he never bothered to ask who.”