Points: Sam Langford's Power: Real or Myth?

[McGoorty]

Experience is the best teacher.

Yeah mate, but you can't tell these young fella's anything,........ because of all their knowledge and "experience".

[kendom]

Great for HIS time. Very powerful for HIS time. I'd judge him looking at what he did in his era as it would simply not be fair to compare him to fighters who came after him and then disagree. But from what I can see in his fights with my own eyes, pretty powerful man. But ranking him in atg sense and comparing him to others when it comes to power? Come on. look at the actual footage. It's a typical fighter from that era when there weren't many one punch killers. Just very wild and a lot of arm punches which don't result in KO's cleanly. It took a while untill say Joe Louis came around and showed incredible punching power in both hands, even in the shortest punches. Put people to sleep with very little effort.
So Langford's power: overrated if you COMPARE it to all the others. This is the type of thing where you have to watch footage or else you can't do a ranking. It's not based on paper like resumes.

Where did Joe Louis learn to punch in combinations and effectively? wasnt it from his trainer Jack Blackburn who fought in Langfords era and taught him how to do those things? he didnt develop them on his own. How can you teach something that was only developed after your time?? hmmmmmmm....

[BKM-2010]

I gotta disagree, that old film is VERY unflattering and I'm tired of this notion that fighters of a 100 years ago were so primitive that they could barely punch,..... complete nonsense. Just look at how many fights he had, don't you think he knew a bit ??????

Same thing here. You would rather just look at resumes and make your case. But again, we are looking at punching power here, and the most important way to judge that is by looking at footage not just records. And unfortunately, there is enough footage of Langford to conclude that he's not even close to the hardest hitters of all time who have proven it with their records AS WELL as their footage.

Don't get me wrong, Langford obviously had a lot of power for his size. But calling him the hardest puncher ever is a gigantic bold claim which holds no weight at all if you look at what is available.

Where did Joe Louis learn to punch in combinations and effectively? wasnt it from his trainer Jack Blackburn who fought in Langfords era and taught him how to do those things? he didnt develop them on his own. How can you teach something that was only developed after your time?? hmmmmmmm....

There was quite an evolution from Langford's time all the way to Louis. Lots of rule changes and Boxing evolved quickly in that time frame, and the fact that Louis was way ahead of his time didn't hurt either. And are you saying Louis fought like Langford?

[kendom]

Same thing here. You would rather just look at resumes and make your case. But again, we are looking at punching power here, and the most important way to judge that is by looking at footage not just records. And unfortunately, there is enough footage of Langford to conclude that he's not even close to the hardest hitters of all time who have proven it with their records AS WELL as their footage.

Don't get me wrong, Langford obviously had a lot of power for his size. But calling him the hardest puncher ever is a gigantic bold claim which holds no weight at all if you look at what is available.



There was quite an evolution from Langford's time all the way to Louis. Lots of rule changes and Boxing evolved quickly in that time frame, and the fact that Louis was way ahead of his time didn't hurt either. And are you saying Louis fought like Langford?

No you're implying that Louis combination punching was a breakthrough and Im saying that Louis learnt how to throw combinations from Jack Blackburn who fought in Langfords era, it was Jack Blackburn who taught Louis how to punch properly and in combinations, how could he teach something that he didnt know?, what he passed down to louis was from his experience as a fighter, where did he get the knowledge from to teach louis about combination punching if thats not the case, which boxer "first" utilized combination and effective punching.

[BKM-2010]

No you're implying that Louis combination punching was a breakthrough and Im saying that Louis learnt how to throw combinations from Jack Blackburn who fought in Langfords era, it was Jack Blackburn who taught Louis how to punch properly and in combinations, how could he teach something that he didnt know?, what he passed down to louis was from his experience as a fighter, where did he get the knowledge from to teach louis about combination punching if thats not the case, which boxer "first" utilized combination and effective punching.

I don't think I put everything into combinations. I said Louis and the newer fighters smiply were better at putting their power to use. Did you ever see Louis wasting any punches? He was a finely tuned machine. Much diffirent to the guys from the 1900s who had a lot of wild flurries and mostly arm punches. I mean guys like Louis, Walcott, Marciano and RObinson knocked people out cold with very short punches. That's some serious power.

And for your question about Blackburn, maybe he evolved with the times? And trainers who used to fight don't really teach their own style to their students. They look at what works best for their fighters.

[Barn]

I don't think I put everything into combinations. I said Louis and the newer fighters smiply were better at putting their power to use. Did you ever see Louis wasting any punches? He was a finely tuned machine. Much diffirent to the guys from the 1900s who had a lot of wild flurries and mostly arm punches. I mean guys like Louis, Walcott, Marciano and RObinson knocked people out cold with very short punches. That's some serious power.

And for your question about Blackburn, maybe he evolved with the times? And trainers who used to fight don't really teach their own style to their students. They look at what works best for their fighters.

Robinson was more speed and accuracy than raw power. Even he admits this.

You say Louis never wasted any punches. Then move onto the 50's and say Marciano, was he economical? No but, he still had power.

[BKM-2010]

Robinson was more speed and accuracy than raw power. Even he admits this.

You say Louis never wasted any punches. Then move onto the 50's and say Marciano, was he economical? No but, he still had power.

Good points. But Marciano missed often and wasn't always flush hits, but when he did connect his opponents would be seriously hurt. Langford was hitting his opponents with an awful lot of flush punches and the finishes weren't impressive.

[McGoorty]

Same thing here. You would rather just look at resumes and make your case. But again, we are looking at punching power here, and the most important way to judge that is by looking at footage not just records. And unfortunately, there is enough footage of Langford to conclude that he's not even close to the hardest hitters of all time who have proven it with their records AS WELL as their footage.

Don't get me wrong, Langford obviously had a lot of power for his size. But calling him the hardest puncher ever is a gigantic bold claim which holds no weight at all if you look at what is available.



There was quite an evolution from Langford's time all the way to Louis. Lots of rule changes and Boxing evolved quickly in that time frame, and the fact that Louis was way ahead of his time didn't hurt either. And are you saying Louis fought like Langford?

I don't buy it, but your'e welcome to your opinion. I never said that Langford was the hardest puncher ever but, damn, you cannot claim he was'nt a great puncher, most don't agree with you that's all, and he had many skills, 2 fights out of 300 plus is not a lot, did you see Sam drop Jeannette 3 or 4 times ????

[Greatest1942]

Good points. But Marciano missed often and wasn't always flush hits, but when he did connect his opponents would be seriously hurt. Langford was hitting his opponents with an awful lot of flush punches and the finishes weren't impressive.

Sam while giving a lot of weight and height , knocked out Willis with one punch. Same with Gunboat Smith...

You are missing a valid point, you have only a few videos of Sam..if I show you a video of George Foreman vs Peralta ...whom George could not knock out in ten rounds in spite hitting him multiple times ,and you never see anything else of of George, what will you say? George has a weak punch?

Marciano hit Savold repeatedly, but he did not budge...if you see that fight of Rock, same conclusion right.

Sam knocked out big heavies Jeanette, Harry Willis, with one single punch...The quote of Harry Willis, about Sam's punch is still there. Those were not knocked out regularly or easily, and it took some one of Sam's power to knock them out.

[kendom]

I don't think I put everything into combinations. I said Louis and the newer fighters smiply were better at putting their power to use. Did you ever see Louis wasting any punches? He was a finely tuned machine. Much diffirent to the guys from the 1900s who had a lot of wild flurries and mostly arm punches. I mean guys like Louis, Walcott, Marciano and RObinson knocked people out cold with very short punches. That's some serious power.

Could those "wild flurries" and "arm punches" be more of a showing of poor footage rather than poor skill. Even in poor footage of the Gans- nelson I can see him throwing combinations, Jack Johnson threw short punches accurately, the reason why we depend so much on the testimonies of people like Nat Fleisher when he says “Jack Johnson boxed on his toes, could block from most any angle, was lightning fast on his feet, could feint an opponent into knots…he possessed everything a champion could hope for punch, speed, brains, cleverness, boxing ability and sharp-shooting" is because the film is too poor to show a proper estimation of their abilities. This is the same with Langford.

And for your question about Blackburn, maybe he evolved with the times? And trainers who used to fight don't really teach their own style to their students. They look at what works best for their fighters.

Jack Blackburns knowledge a lot from the 166 so fights that he had.Blackburn speaking of those early days with his young protégé said, July 20, 1935 Pittsburgh Courier, “Louis needed correction in everything except hitting. I had to teach him to back up his punches with the proper timing, accuracy and to instruct him in the proper art of balance. I trained him under the same methods I trained under when I was a fighter.” Blackburns career ranged from years 1901 to 1923