Naseem Hamed or Antonio Tarver who place's higher on a all time great list?

[The Surgeon]

I don't think he deserves to be first-ballot HOF (or second). He was good and deserves to be in because he was a fan favorite - the same as Gatti.

Outside being fan favorites Hamed, Gatti and Hatton are border-line, there's no bias there.

Arturo Thunder Gatti is a hardcore warrior legend and one of my favs but he is at least 1 whole league below hamed imho

[Scott9945]

I don't think he deserves to be first-ballot HOF (or second). He was good and deserves to be in because he was a fan favorite - the same as Gatti.

Outside being fan favorites Hamed, Gatti and Hatton are border-line, there's no bias there.

If you compare the records and accomplishments of Gatti and Hamed it isn't even remotely close. Hatton fits somewhere in between.

[StarshipTrooper]

If you compare the records and accomplishments of Gatti and Hamed it isn't even remotely close. Hatton fits somewhere in between.

The problem is Hamed never really accomplished much of anything. He made his name beating washed-up guys like Tom Johnson and Kevin Kelley. Most of title "reign" was defenses of the joke WBO belt. The first time he fought a world-class fighter who was actually world-class at the time Hamed fought him he got exposed and retired. The guy had a big punch and people ALWAYS overrate guys like that.

Poet

[New England]

The problem is Hamed never really accomplished much of anything. He made his name beating washed-up guys like Tom Johnson and Kevin Kelley. Most of title "reign" was defenses of the joke WBO belt. The first time he fought a world-class fighter who was actually world-class at the time Hamed fought him he got exposed and retired. The guy had a big punch and people ALWAYS overrate guys like that.

Poet

flashiness probably adds to the ovverating as well. you make a good point


i cant keep my eyes off of a FW with one punch knockout power
call me a softie lol!

[StarshipTrooper]

flashiness probably adds to the ovverating as well. you make a good point


i cant keep my eyes off of a FW with one punch knockout power
call me a softie lol!

You're quite right about the flashiness lol. As I like to say, Ray Leonard was a great fighter on substance not the flash. If anything the flash was a turnoff to me.

I understand the visceral emotional reaction to KO power.....I'm just immune to it myself :hah9: To me a lopsided technical beating is just as good: Either way is a valid road to Damascas ie. getting a dominating win. I'd be a pretty boring person to watch a fight with lol: I watch fights in total silence (with the occasional technical comment thrown in) with an impassive look on my face.....even if it's the biggest fight of the year :hahahaha9: My viewing style is sort of like Joe Louis' in-ring persona.....which also happens to be my ideal level of flashiness :chuckle9:

Poet

[Scott9945]

The problem is Hamed never really accomplished much of anything. He made his name beating washed-up guys like Tom Johnson and Kevin Kelley. Most of title "reign" was defenses of the joke WBO belt. The first time he fought a world-class fighter who was actually world-class at the time Hamed fought him he got exposed and retired. The guy had a big punch and people ALWAYS overrate guys like that.

Poet

Johnson
Robinson
Medina
McCullough
Vazquez
Kelley
Soto
Ingle
Bungu

All former, present, or future champions when they were beaten by Hamed. None of those wins were contorversial or even that close. Tom Johnson was washed up? He was 44-2 when he fought Hamed and hadn't lost in over 5 years.

Hamed was a lot more than a guy with a big punch. And it's a fact that he only lost one fight in his entire career. He was outclassed, but he didn't quit and wasn't KO'd or even dropped. I still question the objectivity of many people out to bury him. He has a Hall of Fame resume.

[SCtrojansbaby]

There is a place in the HOF for guys like Gatti and Hamed who were entertainers.

[StarshipTrooper]

Johnson
Robinson
Medina
McCullough
Vazquez
Kelley
Soto
Ingle
Bungu

All former, present, or future champions when they were beaten by Hamed. None of those wins were contorversial or even that close. Tom Johnson was washed up? He was 44-2 when he fought Hamed and hadm't lost in over 5 years.

Hamed was a lot more than a guy with a big punch. And it's a fact that he only lost one fight in his entire career. He was outclassed, but he didn't quit and wasn't KO'd or even dropped. I still question the objectivity of many people out to bury him. He has a Hall of Fame resume.

They had already been talking in Ring Magazine about Johnson being on the slide well before the Hamed fight. The fact that he went 7-8 in his remaining 15 fights is a pretty damn good indicator he was washed up.

As for the rest:

Robinson - A Euro-fraud with nothing but other Euro-frauds on his resume.

Medina - Aside from going 1-2 against Tom Johnson he lost to practically every notable opponent he faced.

McCullough - Entertaining club fighter and no more. Think Gatti.

Vazquez - Doesn't have a single victory over a top opponent on his record.

Kelley - Hell, even HBO was calling him past it and looking for redemption in the pre-fight feature on him......and he went 4-3 in his next 7 fights and 13-8 the rest of his career.

Soto - Has 23 losses on his record and the only fighter of note he ever beat was a very green Jose Luis Castillo.

Ingle - The poster boy of Euro-frauds. The only top name on his victory list is a washed up Junior Jones.

Bungu - Two close wins over the notoriously erratic Kennedy McKinney and an over-hyped never-was in Danny Romero doesn't make you an elite fighter.

Poet

[RichCCFC]

I smell a hint a prejudice in poet's posts.

[Scott9945]

They had already been talking in Ring Magazine about Johnson being on the slide well before the Hamed fight. The fact that he went 7-8 in his remaining 15 fights is a pretty damn good indicator he was washed up.

As for the rest:

Robinson - A Euro-fraud with nothing but other Euro-frauds on his resume.

Medina - Aside from going 1-2 against Tom Johnson he lost to practically every notable opponent he faced.

McCullough - Entertaining club fighter and no more. Think Gatti.

Vazquez - Doesn't have a single victory over a top opponent on his record.

Kelley - Hell, even HBO was calling him past it and looking for redemption in the pre-fight feature on him......and he went 4-3 in his next 7 fights and 13-8 the rest of his career.

Soto - Has 23 losses on his record and the only fighter of note he ever beat was a very green Jose Luis Castillo.

Ingle - The poster boy of Euro-frauds. The only top name on his victory list is a washed up Junior Jones.

Bungu - Two close wins over the notoriously erratic Kennedy McKinney and an over-hyped never-was in Danny Romero doesn't make you an elite fighter.

Poet

Like many top fighters, Johnson declined after taking the first beating of his career. He had been the IBF champion for 4 years and had won 11 stright title fights. The Ring Magazine reference is just selective speculation. It was a very legitimate win. Kelley and McCullough were former champions with just one career loss. Soto was 54-7 when he fought Hamed and was the WBC champion. And Bungu beating McKinney and Romero was pretty damn impressive, whether you want to admit it or not.