Calzaghe vs Dawson at 175 lbs

[Pastrano]

Toney's right, both Jackson and Daniels were way past prime and Daniels was a natural jr. mw anyway. Much smaller man who wasn't even prime anymore. Jackson was more prime than Daniels, but still past prime. Echols and Allen were onedimensional punchers/brawlers and they still managed to give Hopkins a tough fight. Stop overhyping your man, just because you worship him it doesn't mean he really was a legend.

He's simply a keen technical fighter who profitted from his experience, both in and outside the ring. He went on making millions by schooling non-technicians. And in the process got himself ranked alongside Monzon and Hagler somehow...idiotic American press.

[Toney616]

Already explained, I'm sure you think Chavez earned a draw with Whitaker...

No. Theres a big difference between what happened with Hopkins-Calzaghe and Whitaker-Chavez. The only people that have a problem wth the scoring of Hopkins-Calzaghe are Hopkins fans. Most objective fans know that Whittaker was robbed. Big difference.

Poet already answered that, your not new to boxing stop playing dumb.

Unless you know what my definition of what makes a fighter great is, how can you say im playing dumb?

Yes I don't care, my favourite fighter is pretty dirty anyway and poet already answered that well.

Fair enough. I hope he gets robbed again on the scorecards against Pascal

Nope your a known Hopkins hater when comparing resumes with Pacquiao you claimed the Margarito win was great shows how much you reach to discredit Hopkins.

Didn't say that. I said the Tito win is overrated and the Margarito was a solid win for Pacquaio. I also said that time will tell how best to evaluate the Margarito win. Time wasnt too kind to the Tito win, thats for sure.
Titos best win at mw:
Joppy
Best wins:
Shot Duran (c-)
Eastman(b-)
losses:
Hopkins(a)
Tito(b+)
Taylor(b+)
Bute(b+)
Joppy=B level fighter/fringe contender
Tito shut out loss to any fighter he fought above b level

If your being serious your clearly a noob.

The only people that have a problem with the Calzaghe-Hopkins decsision are Hopkins fans, who tend to be a little bit biased.

Because its Hopkins...

Im going to go over this once more than I give up. He hooked up with Mackie Shilstone so he could become a full blown lhw (for Tarver ) and walk into the ring come fight night at 180+ lbs. Could Hopkins now safely make the mw limit? Of course not. Hence Hopkins is the naturally bigger man when compared to Pavlik. You talking about growing old has nothing to do with anything here.

HBO unofficial scale
Pavlik: 171 lbs
Hopkins 180 lbs

Hopkins was the naturally bigger man and he was cut, not carrying old man fat, as you keep going on about.

Your a known hater and will discredit him anytime you can.

Hopkins had wanted to unify earlier with Holmes(wbc), but Holmes didnt want to fight him because of all of Hopkins dirty tactics. Unfortunately Hopkins would come into the Don King tournament and get put into a position to fight Holmes. Holmes's team leading up to the fight would talk to the hbo team (including the ref Smodger) about Hopkins tactics and plead with the ref to clamp down on them. And look what happened. Hopkins literaly low blowed him around 4-5 times per round. Smodger would take a point and later on threatend to dq Hopkins but he just turned a blind eye as Hopkins carried on doing what he was doing. And this is the guy you are surpised I hate?

Already explained and if you knew anything about boxing you know that you start putting on useless weight when you get older, who you thinks bigger J Tapia or Brandon Rios.

No, you havent. You have just resorted to misdirection. What part of training with Shilstone to become a lhw do you not understand?

Because he has been known to weigh at about WW on fightnight since hes got old, its pretty simple.

No

With the exception of a couple of fighters like Corley and Pacquaio, most fighters, fight about 10-12 lbs below thier fight night weight. As a sfw jmm would come into the ring around 144, now his bulked up to lw, I expect him to come in a bit heavier.
Mayweather couldnt make the 144 limit and could only get down to 146. Come fight night he looked like he was around 160 lbs. Thats a weight difference of more than 10 lbs.
Not all fighters outgrow their weight division either look at Hagler and Mickey Ward.

I said Taylor was better than anyone Calzaghe beat not named Hopkins, I'd say Kessler is arguable.

FIne.
Eubank>>>Taylor

[Toney616]

Based on the fact that he was considered by most as one of the elite fighters in the world,.

He was outboxed by dlh and got a gift. Resorted to low blows when he got in trouble with Vargas and Reid. Beat up William nothing special Joppy. Would lose by shut out to Hopkins, Winky and shot Jones. His career was over when he was told to rewrap his hands

most experts thought he'd beat Hopkins, instead he got bsolutely dominated. Pryor beat an elite fighter in Arguello .

Like who?

What he did there was still better than Joes fraudulent run at 168, any objective fan can see that..

Hopkins journeyman>>>>>Calzaghes journeyman?

Nope are listed them earlier in the thread, have a look, its clear what a hater you are when it comes to Hopkins.

His resume is overrated.

His resume is greater than Calzaghes without a doubt.

Even if its better its only better by a little bit. Calzaghes resume is crap, so what does that say about Borenards resume.

You say Hopkins is a cheater loooooooooooool, that is just being silly since anyone with eyes can see that Jones dominated him.

Im being biased to the extreme to highlight my point

Yup this is your only mention of Calzaghes resume, anyone with decent reading comprehension can see your agenda, funny thing is I'm not eeven a huge fan of Hopkins.

I have never tried to hide my dislike for Hopkins. No one here should be surprised with what im saying

[Pastrano]

Trinidad-Joppy fight was su****ious too, don't forget this whole issue over Trinidad's handwrappings. It did seem somewhat strange that a guy like Joppy, who has never been stopped by any other mw, including Bhop, should get totally destroyed in 5 rounds by a man who quite recently was fighting at 147. Who knows, who knows...

[StarshipTrooper]

same with hopkins but with fat yanks

As opposed to emaciated Brits that can't eat on account of their rotten teeth? :thinking9:

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

I'm going to have to disgree with you there. He needs to have some wins over at least a couple of fighters who are either: atgs/hofers or at least classed as elite when he faced them. Or as a minimum a lot of guys who are at least grade b+ fighters.

HOF is pretty much meaningless as plenty of non-greats get in. Greats are a different bread altogether and, like I said, it's unusual to have two in-prime greats active in the same weight class at the same time. How many in-prime greats did Chavez beat? None. How many in-prime greats did Calzaghe beat? None. Hopkins beat one: Felix Trinidad.

Out of interest what Hopkins wins do you highly rate?

Felix Trinidad, Glen Johnson, Antwun Echols x2, Keith Holmes, Robert Allen.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

idiotic American press.

******ed Euro-peon fan bois :geek9:

[RubenSonny]

No. Theres a big difference between what happened with Hopkins-Calzaghe and Whitaker-Chavez. The only people that have a problem wth the scoring of Hopkins-Calzaghe are Hopkins fans. Most objective fans know that Whittaker was robbed. Big difference.

I'm not a Hopkins fan and pretty much everyone counts it as a win for Whitaker which was not the official verdict.

Unless you know what my definition of what makes a fighter great is, how can you say im playing dumb?

..........Its obvious.

Fair enough. I hope he gets robbed again on the scorecards against Pascal

So you admit you think he got robbed, if he had earned the verdict it would have made no difference to what he did in the ring. Its clear you will reach as far as you can to discredit Hopkins.

Didn't say that. I said the Tito win is overrated and the Margarito was a solid win for Pacquaio. I also said that time will tell how best to evaluate the Margarito win. Time wasnt too kind to the Tito win, thats for sure.
Titos best win at mw:
Joppy
Best wins:
Shot Duran (c-)
Eastman(b-)
losses:
Hopkins(a)
Tito(b+)
Taylor(b+)
Bute(b+)
Joppy=B level fighter/fringe contender
Tito shut out loss to any fighter he fought above b level

So you've already ranked the win yet its value is dependent on what Margarito does, that makes no sense. A clear example of how you will reach to discredit Hopkins.

The only people that have a problem with the Calzaghe-Hopkins decsision are Hopkins fans, who tend to be a little bit biased.

Again, I'm not a Hopkins fan, I respect him and root for him most of the time.

Im going to go over this once more than I give up. He hooked up with Mackie Shilstone so he could become a full blown lhw (for Tarver ) and walk into the ring come fight night at 180+ lbs. Could Hopkins now safely make the mw limit? Of course not. Hence Hopkins is the naturally bigger man when compared to Pavlik. You talking about growing old has nothing to do with anything here.

HBO unofficial scale
Pavlik: 171 lbs
Hopkins 180 lbs

Hopkins was the naturally bigger man and he was cut, not carrying old man fat, as you keep going on about.

He was nowhere near as cut as he was at MW thats undeniable, you don't naturally grow at that age, your bodyweight stabilizes in terms of growth by around 30 (usually a little before).

Hopkins had wanted to unify earlier with Holmes(wbc), but Holmes didnt want to fight him because of all of Hopkins dirty tactics. Unfortunately Hopkins would come into the Don King tournament and get put into a position to fight Holmes. Holmes's team leading up to the fight would talk to the hbo team (including the ref Smodger) about Hopkins tactics and plead with the ref to clamp down on them. And look what happened. Hopkins literaly low blowed him around 4-5 times per round. Smodger would take a point and later on threatend to dq Hopkins but he just turned a blind eye as Hopkins carried on doing what he was doing. And this is the guy you are surpised I hate?

But its absolutely cool to like known steroid users, right.

No, you havent. You have just resorted to misdirection. What part of training with Shilstone to become a lhw do you not understand?

Its a given that he would hire someone to make the weight transition.

No

With the exception of a couple of fighters like Corley and Pacquaio, most fighters, fight about 10-12 lbs below thier fight night weight. As a sfw jmm would come into the ring around 144, now his bulked up to lw, I expect him to come in a bit heavier.
Mayweather couldnt make the 144 limit and could only get down to 146. Come fight night he looked like he was around 160 lbs. Thats a weight difference of more than 10 lbs.
Not all fighters outgrow their weight division either look at Hagler and Mickey Ward.

In his prime Marquez would come into the ring around 140 (a little under I think), its clear that the added pounds are due to age, and its clear since hes more fleshy than once was, as is the case with Hopkins.

FIne.
Eubank>>>Taylor

Its obvious that you'd pick a washed up fighter against a prime one if its in an effort to discredit hopkins.

[RubenSonny]

He was outboxed by dlh and got a gift.

Funny how you flip flop with this whole official verdict thing.

Resorted to low blows when he got in trouble with Vargas and Reid. Beat up William nothing special Joppy.

He arguably had the best year of any active fighter that year.

Would lose by shut out to Hopkins

Displaying Hopkins greatness.

Winky and shot Jones. His career was over when he was told to rewrap his hands

Proof of you reaching as far as you can, he wasn't the same after the Hopkins fight and everyone knows that, he also retired between these fights, bringing up the Jones fight is completely pathetic and shows how much your willing to reach.

Like who?

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jd92601.htm

Hopkins journeyman>>>>>Calzaghes journeyman?

Exactly right...

His resume is overrated.

Yeah like most active fighters, thats a given.

Even if its better its only better by a little bit. Calzaghes resume is crap, so what does that say about Borenards resume.

Resorting to childish nicknames? Well you can have a look at my thread, look at all the great posters that didn't think it was clearly Hopkins, you've got Tunney, Zagz and Jermainerambo on your side

Im being biased to the extreme to highlight my point

Yeah its cool man you hate dirty tactics but love steroid users.

I have never tried to hide my dislike for Hopkins. No one here should be surprised with what im saying

Okay well I will just leave it there nothing more to say, you hate him too much to have a decent debate about it, Calzaghe resume = Hopkins resumeis an insane statement.

[bboy80]

Calzaghe wins all day long on points, but if it was Calzaghe in his twenties Dawson would get tko'd.