World without Joe Louis

[Spartacus Sully]

Really??????? Corbett fought him. Choynski fought him.

yes not giving african americns title fights was the norm...even jeffries fought him...but not for the title.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

intergrated? like letting african americans enlist and having 180000 africans americans fighting for the north?

In all Black regiments, not exactly intergrated and equal is it. not to mention they were not afforded the say pay, nor equipment that the white Soldiers were afforded. Oh America when in trouble allows Blacks to fight(only to treat them subserviant to the whites. They were not treated equal at any point and time), see Independence War as well as French-Indian war.

[Chief2ndzOnly!]

Even as he repeated his challenge "to fight any man living," Sullivan refused to fight a black man. "I will not fight a Negro. I never have and I never shall," he declared.


John Sullivan and His America, by Michael Isenberg (University of Illinois Press, 1988).

so he clrealy wasnt the greatest fighter ever....but he wasnt a racist.

i have no admiration for him other then brining fame and gloves to the sport.

and a wicked stache

And you call Jack Johnson racist?!?!?!?!? But you dont call John L. Sullivan racist? Upholding the double-standard any?

[Steak]

In those times the only thing Jack could've done was not become Champion. America had it's mind made up BI137. What about that do you not understand. It mattered not what or how Jack acted. I dont see why this so hard for you to grasp.

thats bull****. when Louis became champion, people started accepting him because he acted like the complete opposite of Jack Johnson.

yall like to make believe that Johnson was doing African Americans a favor and giving them hope, but in reality they couldnt stand him either. I have direct quotes from people that met him and how they felt about him, but you prefer to fabricate opinions about someone you never met.

There were a lot of idiots around in those times, and theyre all jackasses. but Johnson was also one of them. Johnson would have done wonders for blacks in a social sense if he had acted like Louis. He essentially was the most famous African American in his time, and he (unfairly) was representing all African Americans. He could have made a big difference had he acted like a respectable human being, but instead he selfishly turned his back on African Americans and was one of the worst possible examples when he could have done some real good.

The problem is that Johnson has been romanticized by media in present day to appear to be a purely sympathetic figure. Reality is that he was not a good person, and held blacks back not only in boxing but in society.

[Spartacus Sully]

In all Black regiments, not exactly intergrated and equal is it. not to mention they were not afforded the say pay, nor equipment that the white Soldiers were afforded. Oh America when in trouble allows Blacks to fight(only to treat them subserviant to the whites. They were not treated equal at any point and time), see Independence War as well as French-Indian war.

they were granted equal pay in 1864 and the decision was made retroactive so they got the money they were due from the fighting they allready did. looking into it i see the members of the 54th from massachusets went with out pay...quite admirable soon after it seems another solider in the 2nd also refued his pay and was brought to trial in which congress decided to give equal pay.

to sacrafice of ones self is how one should bring a light to injustice, not by pushing the limits untill injustice finds you.

uncle toms cabin unified the north it may or may not have started the civil war but it definaetly unified the north.

[Mast]

The problem is that Johnson has been romanticized by media in present day to appear to be a purely sympathetic figure. Reality is that he was not a good person, and held blacks back not only in boxing but in society.

Did Joe Louis set a good example nearly beating a woman to death?

[Spartacus Sully]

And you call Jack Johnson racist?!?!?!?!? But you dont call John L. Sullivan racist? Upholding the double-standard any?

fine fine fine just about every white person that was alive in the 1800's was a blatant racist.

john l was a giant racist.....but he held no anger twords the african race.

i look at johnsons fast car gold teeth and white prostitues as completly on purpose to show the white race that hes better then them and if thats not blatant racism then i dont know what is. and its not even the racisim that i care about its the idea that to make a change he had to un-necessiaraly push the envelope, lick, and cut his tounge on it.

[Spartacus Sully]

Did Joe Louis set a good example nearly beating a woman to death?

absolutely. best example ever.....with the act of admitting youve done something, feeling regret and apologizing.

did he even hit her? i thought he ha djust pushed her on the bed and was about to hit her before some one threatened to call the cops and he came to.

[Steak]

Did Joe Louis set a good example nearly beating a woman to death?

Joe Louis wasnt a saint either, but at leat he put on a good mask for the benefit of African Americans.
Johnson did the same thing as well, by the way.

also Lena Horne said that didnt happen I think, although Im not sure what to believe.

[Steak]

http://books.google.com/books?id=wBU...0horne&f=false

page 138 and 139.
Horne said that Louis 'was incapable of treating a woman violently'.

regardless, even if Louis did do it it doesnt change the fact that Johnson screwed things up in his time.