George Foreman's claim to fame...

[CarlosG815]

Was it what he did in the 70's? Or was it his comeback?

[bklynboy]

Was it what he did in the 70's? Or was it his comeback?

Both. Imagine how Sonny Liston's legacy would have changed if 10 years after the phantom knock-out he comes back as a charmer and regains his title (let's forget that Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton are there).

We would now have two images of Liston the brooding, sullen mob enforcer; and his charming second incarnation. It's almost impossible to imagine; but then George did the impossible.

His fame is more than the 70's version.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

The truest answer is the one which reflects the wider perception ("perception is reality," as they say), & the truth is, as much as this may surprise younger readers & fight fans, Foreman didn't have an all-time great status for his 70's incarnation until he returned & made good in the 90's. Only then did people turn back the clock, watch the tape, & start deciding, "Yes, this guy in his pomp was good enough to obliterate nearly all the other greats on his best night."

No one had spoken of Foreman in that capacity since he lost to Ali (they were starting to, though, between the first clash with Frazier & Zaire. Jack Dempsey & Joe Louis personally were moved to comment that the young Foreman was the most menacing pure puncher they had ever witnessed in-person). It all fell away until his most unlikely return, but that is really not looking at it objectively.

To me, objectively, you must examine a fighters' prime, & that was Foreman in the 70's. All fighters deserved to be judged at their best, even if, as is the case with Foreman, their finest hour comes after their prime. Foreman beating Moorer is his greatest claim to fame (& it's close, but I'd say it just shades the first win over Frazier as his finest hour in the ring), but his actual prime is what deserves the most focus when judging him.

[CarlosG815]

The truest answer is the one which reflects the wider perception ("perception is reality," as they say), & the truth is, as much as this may surprise younger readers & fight fans, Foreman didn't have an all-time great status for his 70's incarnation until he returned & made good in the 90's. Only then did people turn back the clock, watch the tape, & start deciding, "Yes, this guy in his pomp was good enough to obliterate nearly all the other greats on his best night."

No one had spoken of Foreman in that capacity since he lost to Ali (they were starting to, though, between the first clash with Frazier & Zaire. Jack Dempsey & Joe Louis personally were moved to comment that the young Foreman was the most menacing pure puncher they had ever witnessed in-person). It all fell away until his most unlikely return, but that is really not looking at it objectively.

To me, objectively, you must examine a fighters' prime, & that was Foreman in the 70's. All fighters deserved to be judged at their best, even if, as is the case with Foreman, their finest hour comes after their prime. Foreman beating Moorer is his greatest claim to fame (& it's close, but I'd say it just shades the first win over Frazier as his finest hour in the ring), but his actual prime is what deserves the most focus when judging him.

That is what my thought was... His claim to fame was his return then?

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Ultimately, yes. It boosted not only his stocks as a human being & businessman, but even extended to granting his prime a much kinder view historically than it had been given up until he came back & won people over.

I should think you would find few, if any, top-10 all-time Heavyweight lists between his loss in Zaire & his triumphant return which made any mention of George Foreman. He just wasn't looked at as top-10 all-time material.

About a year or two ago, I was watching a DVD from HBO which counted down the best HW punchers, & stylists, of all-time. The program was made in about 1980 or so, which gives a good perspective of what I'm talking about. Larry Merchant was one of the guest analysts. Foreman was discussed in the Punchers' category, but you can see in Merchant (& others') analysis that Foreman just isn't held in the best esteem. "I think he's a greater puncher than he is a fighter...just a tremendously powerful, strong man, but with flaws," are some of the things said of him.

[bojangles1987]

I would think more people will remember him for coming back in the 90s, just because no one could believe it when he was successful.

['Sugar' Freddi]

[bklynboy]

I would think more people will remember him for coming back in the 90s, just because no one could believe it when he was successful.

I think you're right. Most people will think of the 1990s version when looking back at his career.

And as Wild Blue Yonda said many people (myself included) discounted George's achievements after Ali and his first retirement as a wide-punching brawler with a great chin and great power but ultimately just a brawler

[TheGreatA]

Not the answer that the thread starter is looking for but I'll still have to say both as Foreman wouldn't be anywhere near as highly regarded if his two careers stood alone. Winning the heavyweight title twice, the way he did it, is his true claim to fame.

[Great John L]

Definitely his comeback. Look at it this way. No Top 10 Heavyweights list prior to the late 1990s had George on it Even in the lower levels, George was never present. Nowadays, since the 1990s and his combeack, George is on virtually every top 10 list of legendary heavyweights. He also made more fans, got more respect, made more money, and had a better image as a man not just a fighter in his comeback., And he made a record in bixing that will probably never be broken. And he fought better competition as a whole in his comeback than he did in his first 37 fights, fighting Morrison, Holyfield, Cooney, Moorer, Briggs, Qawi, Cooper. Sure Ali and Frazier were better than these men, but they came later and were the only really top level fighters George fought before his comeback. Norton and Lyle were good but not great, Young beat him, and Roman was a nobody.

George looked mroe menacing in his prime, more scary and invincible looking.