Rating Juan Manuel Marquez historically

[CarlosG815]

I don't do lists but Marquez is phenomenal. Last night was a very impressive fight against a very game opponent in Katsidis. I like Katsidis a lot and was hopeful that he could pull off a win, but I wasn't about to bet against Marquez.

That was a great fight and Marquez just keeps looking better and better. I can't believe the work rate he was able to maintain for the entire fight.

[bojangles1987]

He should be an ATG, but somehow doesn't have those wins that make you say he definitely is. What he's doing at lightweight is beginning to qualify, when you factor in his size and age.

Marquez is the greatest offensive counter puncher I have ever seen.

[-Huey-]

He's up there....I don't understand all the hate this man gets...he's a warrior that fights his heart out every time!

[Tyson.]

Marquez is and always has been a better fighter than Barrera & Morales as well as Hamed.. H2H he would always beat those 3 fighters because he is better skilled than them all, JMM is one of the best counter-punchers of the last 50yrs and his place in the Hall of Fame is assured, yet i rate Pacquiao superior to him in those weight classes.

Why has he always been better than Hamed, MAB or Morales?

JMM fought bums in the 90s while Hamed was dominating the fw division.

JMM was offerred a carrear high payday to fight Hamed but he turned it down. You think if Pac can KD JMM 4 times in 2 rounds, Prime Hamed wont get the KO. Hamed was KOing very durable guys, JMM's chin isnt good enough to last 12 rounds with Prime Hamed. Look at their common opponents and Hamed fought them earlier and stopped them easier.

As for the topic, yes hes an ATG fighter but hes overrated by alot of people. His resume isnt that much better than Hameds and hes been fighting nearly 10 years longer. Part of the reason hes able to fight so well at an advanced age is due to him fighting easy fights for the majority of his carrear.

[sonnyboyx2]

Why has he always been better than Hamed, MAB or Morales?

JMM fought bums in the 90s while Hamed was dominating the fw division.

JMM was offerred a carrear high payday to fight Hamed but he turned it down. You think if Pac can KD JMM 4 times in 2 rounds, Prime Hamed wont get the KO. Hamed was KOing very durable guys, JMM's chin isnt good enough to last 12 rounds with Prime Hamed. Look at their common opponents and Hamed fought them earlier and stopped them easier.

As for the topic, yes hes an ATG fighter but hes overrated by alot of people. His resume isnt that much better than Hameds and hes been fighting nearly 10 years longer. Part of the reason hes able to fight so well at an advanced age is due to him fighting easy fights for the majority of his carrear.

have you got some proof of the Hamed offer?

[dde91]

Marquez is an ATG but where its hard for me to say because of the way he was handled in his earlier years. I think if he had been with Bob Arum he very well couldve been the man and made a lot more money, but his misguided team decided to go to India and places like that for less money. For years I heard he was the truth but his team was so false meaning ****ing up his career. After I got a chance to really see him in action I fell in Love because he is a warrior that want quit. I really admire his counter punching and adaptability. Hes older and still to this day he will mix it up with his oipponent. Some like Floyd will take the safe road and thats his choice but Marquez and Pacquaio not only love to fight they also put on a show. They give the crowd an action packed fight until its over and no matter who it is. Marquez is better than Pac in my opionion because he can make adjustment and his defense can change in the middle of a fight. His heart is made of stone cold Diamond. I atleast rate him in the top 100 not to be biased but the 30-60 had so pure ole dee monster that could fight.

The best compliment you can pay to Marquez is this. PAC is a monster and has been for the last three years but every since he has became the P4P #1 HE HAS WANTED NOTHING TO DO WITH MARQUEZ. The ranking went something like this Pac
Marquez
Mosley
Hopkins

Two of these guys were lantantlly ducked by Pacquaio. I call marquez a duck because eventhough they fought twice, If you and the number two pound for pound are the same size and p4p 1 and 2 then there is no reason not to fight. Even now Pac say he wants Marquez to weight in at 147 dam Pac you weighted 144 your last fight and you had to eat eights meals a day to get there. Stop ducking and fight Marquez. Win lose or draw Marquez in my book is right behind these greats.

Whitaker
Armstron
Leonard
Hearns
Mayweather
Pep---------------Marquez

Hes ahead of DELAHOYA, cHAVEZ, mORRALES, bARRERA AND OTHER. i DONT KNOW WHERE THAT NUMBER IS BUT HE IS GREAT.

Marquez is the most overrated Mexican in the past 10 years. Lost all his big fights super fights.
Prime Barrera and Morales whoop Marquez because he doesn't have the power to knock them out like Pac and a Worn Down Barrera OUTBOXED Marquez and got robbed with that ****** slip call that was a knockdown.

[Jack Napier]

he's 3rd behind Terrible and Barrera
Casamayor, Barrera*, Diaz, Gainer, Medina
Marquez is good, but overrated as hell
best known for crying about his losses to Pac

[StarshipTrooper]

Why has he always been better than Hamed, MAB or Morales?

JMM fought bums in the 90s while Hamed was dominating the fw division.

JMM was offerred a carrear high payday to fight Hamed but he turned it down. You think if Pac can KD JMM 4 times in 2 rounds, Prime Hamed wont get the KO. Hamed was KOing very durable guys, JMM's chin isnt good enough to last 12 rounds with Prime Hamed. Look at their common opponents and Hamed fought them earlier and stopped them easier.

As for the topic, yes hes an ATG fighter but hes overrated by alot of people. His resume isnt that much better than Hameds and hes been fighting nearly 10 years longer. Part of the reason hes able to fight so well at an advanced age is due to him fighting easy fights for the majority of his carrear.

Hamed never dominated anything other than his trouser worm (when he could find it). But he COULD Dumbo a run for his money :rolleyes9:

Poet

[Tyson.]

have you got some proof of the Hamed offer?

During the time when JMM was Hameds WBO mandatory(99). Hamed fought guys that were higher ranked in the ring magazine rankings. Yes JMM was a better fighter than those guys, but at the time it wasnt clear cut. JMM had only fought one titlist in Norwood and lost.

1. Naseem Hamed
2. Freddie Norwood
3. Paul Ingle
4. Vuyani Bungu
5. Cesar Soto
6. Luisito Espinosa
7. Juan Manuel Marquez
8. Julio Pablo Chacon
9. Manuel Medina
10. Mbulelo Botile

After he beat those 3 guys, he made the offer to JMM.

Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. Marquez, of Mexico City, will meet Daniel Jiminez of Puerto Rico in the 10-round featherweight main event Sunday at the Union Plaza. The six-bout card is scheduled to start at 11 a.m.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../14250555.html

Excerpts from an interview with former Marquez and Barrera matchmaker for Forum Boxing Inc, Antonio Curtis. "When they said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down."

Following the Bungu fight Hamed finally offered to fight long time WBO number one challenger, Juan Manuel Marquez. Marquez turned down the fight saying that he wanted more money. http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Naseem_Hamed

[SNVDoublePunch!]

There is actually so much ****** within this thread from both sides that I couldn't even begin to try and argue with it. JMM is a great fighter. Inarguable. JMM is a future HOFer. Inarguable. ATG? Ranked above Barrera and Morales? Thoroughly arguable. It depends what you consider an ATG and if you have to label it with definitive numbers. I personally don't feel you need to place numbers on a fighter's head. BUT, if you do, and say you consider only guys on a top 50 list are ATGs, then no. He's not a top 50 fighter of all time, that I can find a place for in that list.

Top 100 list, is still arguable, but I can personally see a lot of arguable cases rationally being in the top 51-100 fighters of all time. Marquez would be one of those places for me. I consider him the equivalent to EM and MAB on a H2H basis but his resume doesn't stack up for me to rank him over them. And I'm a big fan of his too. He's only lost one decision that it's been in arguably clear he's lost and he's never been stopped. He's a terrific fighter who could hold his own with nearly any Featherweight or Super Featherweight that ever lived, I think.