Benny Leonard vs Ray Leonard?

[Barn]

I had Leonard winning by 1 point ie. so close that if someone had it scored the other way I wouldn't have any complaints. The judge that had it lopsided for Leonard needs to find a new proffesion: He's clearly incompetant as a boxing judge.

Poet

I ended up 6-5-1.

[SBleeder]

Leonard wasn't the first to refuse to stand toe to toe with Duran. Edwin Viruet did it in the 70s and was lucky if he won 5 of their 25 rounds. Lou Bizzarro was on his bike all night and lasted 14 rounds before Duran finally caught up with him.

I'd say what happened against Leonard had less to do with Ray's "circus act" and more to do with Duran's awful conditioning and the Desperate Dan-sized feast he consumed after the weigh in. Listen to what Leonard himself says about it on Beyond the Glory. Even so, the fight was not a blow out and I thought Duran still won a couple of rounds.

***** is correct about Leonard not having timely rematches of any of his marquee wins. When he eventually did meet Hearns and Duran again it was far too late. The fairly short career and lack of rematches of close wins hurts his all-time status for me.

As to the topic, Benny is the greater fighter but he overreached himself at 147 and I think Ray at his best would beat him.

All I was trying to say is that Duran didn't deserve an immediate after quitting against Leonard. What you say is true about other situations for Leonard.

I'd like to know where this idea that Duran was a crude brawler came from :thinking9: BTW, the scores in the Leonard Vs. Duran II were 68-66, 68-66, 67-66: Hardly a whitewash. This isn't the amatuers: Rounds aren't scored by the punches landed total but by who's doing the damage. Leonard wasn't doing any damage with his punches and the judges duly noted that. Fights aren't won by clowning and shoeshining.

Poet

Rounds are scored on multiple factors; I gave Duran a round but in general Duran wasn't landing anything. Leonard was landing cleanly, if without power. Apparently sometimes clowning and shoe-shining does win fights.

[StarshipTrooper]

Rounds are scored on multiple factors; I gave Duran a round but in general Duran wasn't landing anything. Leonard was landing cleanly, if without power.

The whole point of proffesional boxing is to damage your opponent. Rounds aren't scored by not getting hit. If neither fighter lands anything then the round is scored 10-10 (only because 9-9 isn't permissable ie both fighters deserve to lose the round). Not taking damage only helps your cause if you're simultaniously inflicting damage on your opponent.

A situation where neither fighter is doing any damage to the other SHOULD be closely scored.

Apparently sometimes clowning and shoe-shining does win fights.

Not circa 1980 hence the close scorecards.

Poet

[Tyson.]

Ray Leonard has the better resume so that makes him greater.

Hearns after SRR is probably H2H the hardest fight at welterweight. Then coming of a coke addiction, eye injury and long layoff he became middleweight champ. Hagler is considered the greatest middleweight of all time by many.

Duran quiting nothing to do with any circus act more to do with him getting embarassed, fighters with movement frustrated him. SRL fought Durans fight in their 1st fight. That fight was still close though and arguments can be made the SRL won that fight. When SRL fought the right fight, Duran just couldnt compete with him.