Benny Leonard vs Ray Leonard?

[SBleeder]

True words. But to hell with the sympathy bit.

Conman Leonard could have been rated higher though if he was as good as his fans think he was. But that would have required giving Hearns an immediate rematch (or at least within a few years) and Duran an immediate trilogy (no grace period here), plus fighting Hagler before he slowed down.

If by some miracle he still could end up with a draw (a real one this time, not a gift), a win, and a win, Ray Ray would have a case. As it stands, Benny all the way.

You were doing well except for the bolded bit about a Duran trilogy.

What promoter in his right mind would want anything to do with a guy who quit in the middle of a fight... and against the guy who made him quit, to boot.

Leonard, despite fighting a masterful fight in New Orleans, didn't get the credit he deserved for his win. Instead, the focus was all on Duran, who's actions that night are still considered some of the most shameful in boxing history. Why would Leonard want to get back in the ring with a man considered to be a quitter?

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To answer the original question, Benny was the better fighter by several spots... as to who wins a matchup, it would depend heavily on what weight the fight was held at. I consider Benny to be the more skilled fighter based on what I've seen of both men.

[Obama]

You were doing well except for the bolded bit about a Duran trilogy.

What promoter in his right mind would want anything to do with a guy who quit in the middle of a fight... and against the guy who made him quit, to boot.

Leonard, despite fighting a masterful fight in New Orleans, didn't get the credit he deserved for his win. Instead, the focus was all on Duran, who's actions that night are still considered some of the most shameful in boxing history. Why would Leonard want to get back in the ring with a man considered to be a quitter?

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To answer the original question, Benny was the better fighter by several spots... as to who wins a matchup, it would depend heavily on what weight the fight was held at. I consider Benny to be the more skilled fighter based on what I've seen of both men.

Maybe if Leonard would have focused on fighting rather than putting on a circus act Duran would have actually cared to finish the fight.

[StarshipTrooper]

Maybe if Leonard would have focused on fighting rather than putting on a circus act Duran would have actually cared to finish the fight.

:hahahaha9: My good man you're starting to think like me :chuckle9:

Poet

[SBleeder]

Maybe if Leonard would have focused on fighting rather than putting on a circus act Duran would have actually cared to finish the fight.

Not "focused on fighting"? He was hitting Duran absolutely at will, and Duran scarcely landed anything all night. Duran's belief that "anyone who doesn't stand toe to toe and brawl is a coward" went out in the 1940s. Sorry, Roberto.

[Kid McCoy]

Not "focused on fighting"? He was hitting Duran absolutely at will, and Duran scarcely landed anything all night. Duran's belief that "anyone who doesn't stand toe to toe and brawl is a coward" went out in the 1940s. Sorry, Roberto.

Leonard wasn't the first to refuse to stand toe to toe with Duran. Edwin Viruet did it in the 70s and was lucky if he won 5 of their 25 rounds. Lou Bizzarro was on his bike all night and lasted 14 rounds before Duran finally caught up with him.

I'd say what happened against Leonard had less to do with Ray's "circus act" and more to do with Duran's awful conditioning and the Desperate Dan-sized feast he consumed after the weigh in. Listen to what Leonard himself says about it on Beyond the Glory. Even so, the fight was not a blow out and I thought Duran still won a couple of rounds.

***** is correct about Leonard not having timely rematches of any of his marquee wins. When he eventually did meet Hearns and Duran again it was far too late. The fairly short career and lack of rematches of close wins hurts his all-time status for me.

As to the topic, Benny is the greater fighter but he overreached himself at 147 and I think Ray at his best would beat him.

[StarshipTrooper]

I'd like to know where this idea that Duran was a crude brawler came from :thinking9: BTW, the scores in the Leonard Vs. Duran II were 68-66, 68-66, 67-66: Hardly a whitewash. This isn't the amatuers: Rounds aren't scored by the punches landed total but by who's doing the damage. Leonard wasn't doing any damage with his punches and the judges duly noted that. Fights aren't won by clowning and shoeshining.

Poet

[Barn]

I'd like to know where this idea that Duran was a crude brawler came from :thinking9: BTW, the scores in the Leonard Vs. Duran II were 68-66, 68-66, 67-66: Hardly a whitewash. This isn't the amatuers: Rounds aren't scored by the punches landed total but by who's doing the damage. Leonard wasn't doing any damage with his punches and the judges duly noted that. Fights aren't won by clowning and shoeshining.

Poet

They obviously forgot that rule in the Hagler fight

[StarshipTrooper]

They obviously forgot that rule in the Hagler fight

A lot of people thought Hagler won that fight.

Poet

[Barn]

A lot of people thought Hagler won that fight.

Poet

Such as myself.

[StarshipTrooper]

Such as myself.

I had Leonard winning by 1 point ie. so close that if someone had it scored the other way I wouldn't have any complaints. The judge that had it lopsided for Leonard needs to find a new proffesion: He's clearly incompetant as a boxing judge.

Poet