What size is best at Heavyweight?

[Sugarj]

I always thought Ray Robinson was quite a well proportioned middleweight.

To a degree I suppose Roy Jones had quite spindly legs though.

The spindly thing can work for as long as your opponent is the same weight. Its why Thomas Hearns did so well at welterweight or Bob Foster at light heavyweight.

But with heavyweights it is different, you can be outweighed by a drastic amount and it really is a killer in the clinches. I'm a 5ft 9 middleweight with fairly skinny legs myself.....and lets just say I sparred a 16 stone heavyweight once and the clinches were a killer, the leaning on......its murder.

I agree with you about Bob Fitzimmons, he was another spindly chap. But he was overpowered by the heavier weighing Jeffries......whose physique and dimensions would stand the test of time with modern heavyweights. Bob Fitzimmons would be treated like a ragdoll in the clinches by the larger modern heavyweight, those spindly legs would tire very quickly!


And as a heavyweight I really dont think the Fulton physique would be much use these days either for the same reason; 6ft 7 and 208 Lbs when he fought Dempsey! Just imagine Vitali after three weeks salmonella poisoning, forty pounds lighter but with the same height. I've got to express my doubts there, I cant see Fulton as being strong enough to compete today.....and he was never the fleet footed type like Tunney, Walcott or Ali.


There is a reason why there aren't many successful heavyweights with Fitzimmons/Fulton physiques since their era. Its tremendously hard to overcome the disadvantages.

[Die Antwoord]

I think reach and strength are advantages. But things like great hand eye coordination, speed, agility, boxing smarts are very important also and very rare.

I think the last 15 years are an abnormality. Only because men at 6'6 plus are not very common at all. They have less potential boxers in their pool.

Guess what the average height in the NBA was when Ali was boxing 6'1. So I guess the average of 6'8 is just an abnormality as well. Men might not be 6'6 plus normally on average, but world class athletes are. The average height for an olympic swimmer in the 1970's 6'0. Average height now 6'4. Average height of a qb in the NFL in the 70's 5'11. Average height now, 6'4. In 2009 the average height and weight of an offensive lineman in the NFL was 6'5 312 lbs. In 1970 it was 6'0 245. Fastest man on the planet now...6'6, fastest man of the planet when Joe Louis was boxing 5'10. Athletes are bigger now. Its just a fact. Its not just boxing, find me an actual sport and I will find you one where the athletes have gotten bigger and taller.

Also there are more potential boxers in the pool because the sport is now global and the global population has just about doubled in the last half century. If all the black athletes are in the NBA it hurts your point even more, since 6'2 230 lbs guys cant get into the NBA. Heck the only position they could even really play is pg.

I also find it hilarious people on here are saying the ideal weight for a boxer is between 210-235, 6'-6'3. How many guys in that weight and height range did Joe Louis fight in his career? YOu guessed it...0. He fought 2 guys between 210-235 and their heights were 5'3 (guy was 0-3 for his career) and 5'9...Oh it truly was the golden age...

Look if the ideal height and heavyweight for a boxer is 6'-6'3 and 210-235...then theres no way you can consider Joe Louis anywhere near competitive or close to an ATG HW as he never fought anyone in those dimensions. The only one who could even be considered close was 6'6 237 lbs buddy bear who had lost 3 months before facing Louis.

Vitali, Wlad and Lewis changed the game. Just a fact. People on here saying they dont use their height is a joke. All 3 use their height, and their reach is underestimated because the way reach is calculated. Their reaches are several inches longer as they lean down to throw punches. Hence why Briggs who has an 80'' reach would stick his left out there and couldnt reach Vitali, but Vitali could reach him.

The super heavyweights have changed the game. Young Cassius Clay couldnt take a Henry 185 lbs Cooper punch and you think he could take a punch from Wlad...hilarious.

Best dimensions for a HW would be 6'8 250. Vitali size or Lebron James size if you want to use the argument that the best boxers are in basketball.

[sonnyboyx2]

Guess what the average height in the NBA was when Ali was boxing 6'1. So I guess the average of 6'8 is just an abnormality as well. Men might not be 6'6 plus normally on average, but world class athletes are. The average height for an olympic swimmer in the 1970's 6'0. Average height now 6'4. Average height of a qb in the NFL in the 70's 5'11. Average height now, 6'4. In 2009 the average height and weight of an offensive lineman in the NFL was 6'5 312 lbs. In 1970 it was 6'0 245. Fastest man on the planet now...6'6, fastest man of the planet when Joe Louis was boxing 5'10. Athletes are bigger now. Its just a fact. Its not just boxing, find me an actual sport and I will find you one where the athletes have gotten bigger and taller.

Also there are more potential boxers in the pool because the sport is now global and the global population has just about doubled in the last half century. If all the black athletes are in the NBA it hurts your point even more, since 6'2 230 lbs guys cant get into the NBA. Heck the only position they could even really play is pg.

I also find it hilarious people on here are saying the ideal weight for a boxer is between 210-235, 6'-6'3. How many guys in that weight and height range did Joe Louis fight in his career? YOu guessed it...0. He fought 2 guys between 210-235 and their heights were 5'3 (guy was 0-3 for his career) and 5'9...Oh it truly was the golden age...

Look if the ideal height and heavyweight for a boxer is 6'-6'3 and 210-235...then theres no way you can consider Joe Louis anywhere near competitive or close to an ATG HW as he never fought anyone in those dimensions. The only one who could even be considered close was 6'6 237 lbs buddy bear who had lost 3 months before facing Louis.

Vitali, Wlad and Lewis changed the game. Just a fact. People on here saying they dont use their height is a joke. All 3 use their height, and their reach is underestimated because the way reach is calculated. Their reaches are several inches longer as they lean down to throw punches. Hence why Briggs who has an 80'' reach would stick his left out there and couldnt reach Vitali, but Vitali could reach him.

The super heavyweights have changed the game. Young Cassius Clay couldnt take a Henry 185 lbs Cooper punch and you think he could take a punch from Wlad...hilarious.

Best dimensions for a HW would be 6'8 250. Vitali size or Lebron James size if you want to use the argument that the best boxers are in basketball.

Vitali, Wlad & Lewis are "Lumbering Behemoth" to claim otherwise is kidding oneself, they have zero footwork as they have proven throught their career's.. They are mechanical fighters who lack speed, balance & movement and because of their height & size they have proven to be vulnerable to shorter fighters of limited ability, Lamon Brewster, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall & Chris Byrd have all be able to get inside and deliver a KO punch or in Byrds case fustrate and win the fight. all 3 have great difficulty with smaller fighters who can move side to side and show them angles, great pressure fighters like Dempsey, Frazier, Marciano & Tyson would slip their jab and destroy them inside as McCall & Rahman proved.. Lewis & the Klitschko brothers would all be similar in stature to Ernie Terrell without there use of Steroids.

[Spartacus Sully]

I always thought Ray Robinson was quite a well proportioned middleweight.

To a degree I suppose Roy Jones had quite spindly legs though.

The spindly thing can work for as long as your opponent is the same weight. Its why Thomas Hearns did so well at welterweight or Bob Foster at light heavyweight.

But with heavyweights it is different, you can be outweighed by a drastic amount and it really is a killer in the clinches. I'm a 5ft 9 middleweight with fairly skinny legs myself.....and lets just say I sparred a 16 stone heavyweight once and the clinches were a killer, the leaning on......its murder.

I agree with you about Bob Fitzimmons, he was another spindly chap. But he was overpowered by the heavier weighing Jeffries......whose physique and dimensions would stand the test of time with modern heavyweights. Bob Fitzimmons would be treated like a ragdoll in the clinches by the larger modern heavyweight, those spindly legs would tire very quickly!


And as a heavyweight I really dont think the Fulton physique would be much use these days either for the same reason; 6ft 7 and 208 Lbs when he fought Dempsey! Just imagine Vitali after three weeks salmonella poisoning, forty pounds lighter but with the same height. I've got to express my doubts there, I cant see Fulton as being strong enough to compete today.....and he was never the fleet footed type like Tunney, Walcott or Ali.


There is a reason why there aren't many successful heavyweights with Fitzimmons/Fulton physiques since their era. Its tremendously hard to overcome the disadvantages.

compare ssr to the likes of bobo olsen in that tale of the tape....much thinner thighs and biceps though fore arms and calfs were about the same.



i dont understand this whole leaning on you thing....at 6'7" not many people are going to be able to lean on you and for me...clinching seems like a break....i barely ever clinch and if the oppoent trys to i just back off, i run alot and really have no problems supporting my weight for 20+ miles.

as far as klit to fulton imagine a klit with 3 inch smaller biceps 2 inch smaller fore arms 3 inch smaller thigs and 1 inch smaller calfs and you have fred fulton. same size chest, same waist, same neck.

beyond that im not saying fred fulton was awesome. im saying his build was awesome. all fulton had was a jab and reach. ive allready stated he would need to fight out of a crouch, as well if i were him id have much better defense right hand hooks and foot speed.

to sum it all up its the build and not the height or weight that matter.

[Die Antwoord]

Vitali, Wlad & Lewis are "Lumbering Behemoth" to claim otherwise is kidding oneself, they have zero footwork as they have proven throught their career's.. They are mechanical fighters who lack speed, balance & movement and because of their height & size they have proven to be vulnerable to shorter fighters of limited ability, Lamon Brewster, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall & Chris Byrd have all be able to get inside and deliver a KO punch or in Byrds case fustrate and win the fight. all 3 have great difficulty with smaller fighters who can move side to side and show them angles, great pressure fighters like Dempsey, Frazier, Marciano & Tyson would slip their jab and destroy them inside as McCall & Rahman proved.. Lewis & the Klitschko brothers would all be similar in stature to Ernie Terrell without there use of Steroids.

YOu know what McCall, Chris Byrd, Rahman and Brewster all have in common? Theyve all been KTFO by either Wlad Klitschko or Lennox Lewis. All any of them proved is that Vitali can hurt his shoulder, Lewis if hit hard enoguh and just right could be knocked out and Wlad used to tire himself out beating people near death.

[sonnyboyx2]

YOu know what McCall, Chris Byrd, Rahman and Brewster all have in common? Theyve all been KTFO by either Wlad Klitschko or Lennox Lewis. All any of them proved is that Vitali can hurt his shoulder, Lewis if hit hard enoguh and just right could be knocked out and Wlad used to tire himself out beating people near death.

McCall, Rahman, Brewster & Byrd are all mediocre fighters who showed that even tho they was out-weighed by 20-30lbs and gave away several inches in height & reach that they could still slip a slow ponderous jab and KO a "lumbering behemoth".. if they could do it just think what a prime Mike Tyson would have done (not the zombie we seen over the last 12yrs)... Chris Byrd accepted the Vitali fight on 10 days notice, he drove Vitali around the ring in the 9th round landing at will and Vitali "QUIT" knowing he was getting stopped the next round so he made up a "Shoulder-injury"... watch the 9th round below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rLdg...eature=related

[Holtol]

Guess what the average height in the NBA was when Ali was boxing 6'1. So I guess the average of 6'8 is just an abnormality as well. Men might not be 6'6 plus normally on average, but world class athletes are. The average height for an olympic swimmer in the 1970's 6'0. Average height now 6'4. Average height of a qb in the NFL in the 70's 5'11. Average height now, 6'4. In 2009 the average height and weight of an offensive lineman in the NFL was 6'5 312 lbs. In 1970 it was 6'0 245. Fastest man on the planet now...6'6, fastest man of the planet when Joe Louis was boxing 5'10. Athletes are bigger now. Its just a fact. Its not just boxing, find me an actual sport and I will find you one where the athletes have gotten bigger and taller.

Also there are more potential boxers in the pool because the sport is now global and the global population has just about doubled in the last half century. If all the black athletes are in the NBA it hurts your point even more, since 6'2 230 lbs guys cant get into the NBA. Heck the only position they could even really play is pg.

I also find it hilarious people on here are saying the ideal weight for a boxer is between 210-235, 6'-6'3. How many guys in that weight and height range did Joe Louis fight in his career? YOu guessed it...0. He fought 2 guys between 210-235 and their heights were 5'3 (guy was 0-3 for his career) and 5'9...Oh it truly was the golden age...

Look if the ideal height and heavyweight for a boxer is 6'-6'3 and 210-235...then theres no way you can consider Joe Louis anywhere near competitive or close to an ATG HW as he never fought anyone in those dimensions. The only one who could even be considered close was 6'6 237 lbs buddy bear who had lost 3 months before facing Louis.

Vitali, Wlad and Lewis changed the game. Just a fact. People on here saying they dont use their height is a joke. All 3 use their height, and their reach is underestimated because the way reach is calculated. Their reaches are several inches longer as they lean down to throw punches. Hence why Briggs who has an 80'' reach would stick his left out there and couldnt reach Vitali, but Vitali could reach him.

The super heavyweights have changed the game. Young Cassius Clay couldnt take a Henry 185 lbs Cooper punch and you think he could take a punch from Wlad...hilarious.

Best dimensions for a HW would be 6'8 250. Vitali size or Lebron James size if you want to use the argument that the best boxers are in basketball.

The reason why it's an advantage to be tall in the NBA is because the net is 10 feet off the ground.

The Quarter back in the NFL needs to be tall to see over the players.

In sports like Soccer and the NHL players are smaller then in football and the NBA. Because height does not matter as much.

And don't forget the chances of a great athlete being 6'6 and over is less likely. There are far fewer people this tall. There could be as many as a 1000 times more people at 6'2 and under. The chances of a rare genetic oddity are greater at 6'2 then 6'6.

[Sugarj]

compare ssr to the likes of bobo olsen in that tale of the tape....much thinner thighs and biceps though fore arms and calfs were about the same.



i dont understand this whole leaning on you thing....at 6'7" not many people are going to be able to lean on you and for me...clinching seems like a break....i barely ever clinch and if the oppoent trys to i just back off, i run alot and really have no problems supporting my weight for 20+ miles.

as far as klit to fulton imagine a klit with 3 inch smaller biceps 2 inch smaller fore arms 3 inch smaller thigs and 1 inch smaller calfs and you have fred fulton. same size chest, same waist, same neck.

beyond that im not saying fred fulton was awesome. im saying his build was awesome. all fulton had was a jab and reach. ive allready stated he would need to fight out of a crouch, as well if i were him id have much better defense right hand hooks and foot speed.

There was to my eyes at least an even bigger disparity between Robinson and Turpin first time round..............it looked like a different weight division. But as I said previously it is fine within a set weight division, but with heavyweights it is different due to the great potential differences in weight rather than distribution of weight. Obviously the thread concerns heavyweights so thats where I think the discussion should remain.


On the subject of sparring much heavier men I get the impression that you're not too experienced? As the rounds pass their strength takes a toll thats hard to explain whether its their ability to push you off, lean on or try to tie you up.

And as for your running, are you sure you're not prone to slight exaggeration? A few days ago on the 2000 metre running thread under the Training section you assesed that to complete this in under 10 minutes would be 13-15 on the Borg scale, thats assessed as hard for you.

Personally running that time is a doddle.......and for you to then to say you can run 20+ miles makes me doubt your own judgement of your fitness. 20 miles is seriously tough, and friggin near impossible for someone who judges 1.24 miles in 10 minutes as being hard.


But back on thread, a 208Lb 6ft 7 guy would surely not be of the slightest worry to a klitschko for example, unless he had blinding speed of hand and foot too. But I cant think of anyone with anything like these attributes with those dimensions in history! So why list that physique as ideal, when there is no comparable exponent in history?

I think that 6ft 3 -6ft 4 with a long 80+ reach at around 220Lbs is perfect for a heavyweight. Examples around this type include Ali, Holmes and prime Foreman. Holyfield is a whisker below and prime Bowe a whisker above. Right on the money! I'd send these guys up against Wlad or Vitali without even thinking about it........

[sonnyboyx2]

There was to my eyes at least an even bigger disparity between Robinson and Turpin first time round..............it looked like a different weight division. But as I said previously it is fine within a set weight division, but with heavyweights it is different due to the great potential differences in weight rather than distribution of weight. Obviously the thread concerns heavyweights so thats where I think the discussion should remain.


On the subject of sparring much heavier men I get the impression that you're not too experienced? As the rounds pass their strength takes a toll thats hard to explain whether its their ability to push you off, lean on or try to tie you up.

And as for your running, are you sure you're not prone to slight exaggeration? A few days ago on the 2000 metre running thread under the Training section you assesed that to complete this in under 10 minutes would be 13-15 on the Borg scale, thats assessed as hard for you.

Personally running that time is a doddle.......and for you to then to say you can run 20+ miles makes me doubt your own judgement of your fitness. 20 miles is seriously tough, and friggin near impossible for someone who judges 1.24 miles in 10 minutes as being hard.


But back on thread, a 208Lb 6ft 7 guy would surely not be of the slightest worry to a klitschko for example, unless he had blinding speed of hand and foot too. But I cant think of anyone with anything like these attributes with those dimensions in history! So why list that physique as ideal, when there is no comparable exponent in history?

I think that 6ft 3 -6ft 4 with a long 80+ reach at around 220Lbs is perfect for a heavyweight. Examples around this type include Ali, Holmes and prime Foreman. Holyfield is a whisker below and prime Bowe a whisker above. Right on the money! I'd send these guys up against Wlad or Vitali without even thinking about it........

SugarJ.. i agree with you buddy, Rid**** Bowe is a complete exception to the rules. Evander Holyfield said Bowe was the most skilled Big Man of all times and i believe him, yet i feel that Foreman was a tad too big (1inch) and that inch made him sometimes look clumsy. The Klitschko brothers as well as Lennox Lewis was lumbering behemoths who had terrible footwork and was clumsy as a giraffe, their size is a disadvantage to them and i am strongly of the opinion that all 3 use anabolic steroids.

[Spartacus Sully]

There was to my eyes at least an even bigger disparity between Robinson and Turpin first time round..............it looked like a different weight division. But as I said previously it is fine within a set weight division, but with heavyweights it is different due to the great potential differences in weight rather than distribution of weight. Obviously the thread concerns heavyweights so thats where I think the discussion should remain.


On the subject of sparring much heavier men I get the impression that you're not too experienced? As the rounds pass their strength takes a toll thats hard to explain whether its their ability to push you off, lean on or try to tie you up.

And as for your running, are you sure you're not prone to slight exaggeration? A few days ago on the 2000 metre running thread under the Training section you assesed that to complete this in under 10 minutes would be 13-15 on the Borg scale, thats assessed as hard for you.

Personally running that time is a doddle.......and for you to then to say you can run 20+ miles makes me doubt your own judgement of your fitness. 20 miles is seriously tough, and friggin near impossible for someone who judges 1.24 miles in 10 minutes as being hard.


But back on thread, a 208Lb 6ft 7 guy would surely not be of the slightest worry to a klitschko for example, unless he had blinding speed of hand and foot too. But I cant think of anyone with anything like these attributes with those dimensions! So why list that physique as ideal, when there is no comparable exponent in history?

I think that 6ft 3 -6ft 4 with a long 80+ reach at around 220Lbs is perfect for a heavyweight. Examples around this type include Ali, Holmes and prime Foreman. Holyfield is a whisker below and prime Bowe a whisker above. Right on the money! I send these guys up against Wlad or Vitali without even thinking about it........

i dont average a very fast time but at like 6 mph i can do 10 miles and easily walk back 10 miles at like 4 mph.

give me a month to train i could do the 20 at 6.

plus i have asthma and anything out side my comfort zone like say 7.5 8 mph? for 10 mins straight would have me around 13 14.

not much heavier maybe 20 lbs at most a few times, don't really notice a difference i dont fight....dont really have health insurance so id rather avoid that till i get better benifits....and when i spar i dont really ever go on the attack more working my defense and retreating. i just dont notice a difference regardless of weight.

plus i spar when i first get there after warming up and stretching and ive never been tired after sparring alil more out of breath here and there but thats usually from lighter faster people.

instead of height and weight i think how its distributed is much more important and in stead of how its distributed that the style matches how its distributed is much more important. differences in weight may grow but right with them differences in stamina and speed grow as well.