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In order to keep the peace i put the other guy baiting me on the thread on ignore. He claims that trolling here is a P/T job, yet before the Dempsey thread i was idle here for a couple of weeks. Instead of getting into a futile debate about his opinion, i started this thread to provide more info here and the details of that first contract Dempsey signed to fight Wills- which was exposed as nothing more than BS by the New York Times. As far as Greb and Saddler never being DQ let him check his records on that and let him read again what i said about Wills not losing Nearly in a decade minus a DQ
When i saw that poster in another thread question the power of SRL at WW, it made me only more assure to put him on ignore. Leonard was the first to knockout Benitez and Hearns as a welterweight. He had brutal knockouts of challengers as Andy Price and Dave Green.
Here is from article not from my own words:
"The great yearning of Harry Wills, heavyweight Negro, to clamber into a ring with Champion Dempsey has almost been equaled in recent months by the yearning of a great portion of the fight public to see Wills do so," read a Time magazine article in 1923. "So far Dempsey's sagacious management has been able to sidestep.”
Dempsey's management kept sidestepping until Wills was past his prime – until, in fact, Dempsey was no longer champion. And Wills, instead of perhaps becoming one of boxing's great heavyweight champions, had to settle for being one of the greatest heavyweights never to win a world title."
Here is what they say about his record before trying to get Dempsey in 26:
Wills lost just once over a 53-bout span that ran from 1917 to 1925. The streak also included two draws, four no-decisions and three no contests. The lone defeat was a 1922 disqualification for knocking down an opponent on the break.
On his style:
"Wills, while capable at close quarters and in rough going, prefers the long range style, where he can bring into play his speed, skill and cleverness,"
-1922 New York Times article
On this Contract that Dempsey signed:
"The outspoken editor had assured his readers that Wills, who was bright articulate and humble, was “a credit to the game and his race,' Jeffrey T. Sammons wrote in his book, Beyond the Ring: The Role of Boxing in American Society. "Wills himself reinforced that image by downplaying the significance of race in his quest for the title.”
Ring consistently listed Wills among its top contenders, and calls began for a Wills-Dempsey bout. In July of 1922, the two signed to fight , but the New York Times questioned the validity of the agreement."In reality, the articles amount to little more than an indication of good faith on the boxers, for of necessity, the three all-important details – terms, time and place – are left blank," a Times story read
So my friends this contract signed was nothing more than no real stipulations, no consideration, and no gurantee of a fight. A handshake agreement that the poster puts as Factual or a real agreement.
Who Wills fought instead:
A year went by before Dempsey fought again, and Wills wasn't his opponent. It was Tommy Gibbons, a blown-up middleweight Dempsey defeated by a 15-round decision
Okay i give Gibbons more credit than being blown up, but the author is correct he was a much more safe opponent than Wills.
On Wills chances:
Dempsey had good reason to be wary of Wills. For one, he had trouble with fighters who had speed and boxing skill; like Tunney, Gibbons and Bill Brennan.
Wills not only had boxing skill, but he was taller than the 6-1, 190-pound Dempsey, outweighed him by 25-30 pounds, and could hit substantially harder than Tunney, Gibbons or Brennan
The author clearly things Wills had a hell of a shot even years after 1919.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the Dempsey legacy, but those are quotes from publications of the time and what they felt. Ring, Time,and New York Times pretty much called a spade a spade. I stuck only to those articles instead of the some real anti dempsey stuff which call him "an over hype fighter by the white media who had only a handful of defenses against mainly mediocore contenders."
When i saw that poster in another thread question the power of SRL at WW, it made me only more assure to put him on ignore. Leonard was the first to knockout Benitez and Hearns as a welterweight. He had brutal knockouts of challengers as Andy Price and Dave Green.
Here is from article not from my own words:
"The great yearning of Harry Wills, heavyweight Negro, to clamber into a ring with Champion Dempsey has almost been equaled in recent months by the yearning of a great portion of the fight public to see Wills do so," read a Time magazine article in 1923. "So far Dempsey's sagacious management has been able to sidestep.”
Dempsey's management kept sidestepping until Wills was past his prime – until, in fact, Dempsey was no longer champion. And Wills, instead of perhaps becoming one of boxing's great heavyweight champions, had to settle for being one of the greatest heavyweights never to win a world title."
Here is what they say about his record before trying to get Dempsey in 26:
Wills lost just once over a 53-bout span that ran from 1917 to 1925. The streak also included two draws, four no-decisions and three no contests. The lone defeat was a 1922 disqualification for knocking down an opponent on the break.
On his style:
"Wills, while capable at close quarters and in rough going, prefers the long range style, where he can bring into play his speed, skill and cleverness,"
-1922 New York Times article
On this Contract that Dempsey signed:
"The outspoken editor had assured his readers that Wills, who was bright articulate and humble, was “a credit to the game and his race,' Jeffrey T. Sammons wrote in his book, Beyond the Ring: The Role of Boxing in American Society. "Wills himself reinforced that image by downplaying the significance of race in his quest for the title.”
Ring consistently listed Wills among its top contenders, and calls began for a Wills-Dempsey bout. In July of 1922, the two signed to fight , but the New York Times questioned the validity of the agreement."In reality, the articles amount to little more than an indication of good faith on the boxers, for of necessity, the three all-important details – terms, time and place – are left blank," a Times story read
So my friends this contract signed was nothing more than no real stipulations, no consideration, and no gurantee of a fight. A handshake agreement that the poster puts as Factual or a real agreement.
Who Wills fought instead:
A year went by before Dempsey fought again, and Wills wasn't his opponent. It was Tommy Gibbons, a blown-up middleweight Dempsey defeated by a 15-round decision
Okay i give Gibbons more credit than being blown up, but the author is correct he was a much more safe opponent than Wills.
On Wills chances:
Dempsey had good reason to be wary of Wills. For one, he had trouble with fighters who had speed and boxing skill; like Tunney, Gibbons and Bill Brennan.
Wills not only had boxing skill, but he was taller than the 6-1, 190-pound Dempsey, outweighed him by 25-30 pounds, and could hit substantially harder than Tunney, Gibbons or Brennan
The author clearly things Wills had a hell of a shot even years after 1919.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the Dempsey legacy, but those are quotes from publications of the time and what they felt. Ring, Time,and New York Times pretty much called a spade a spade. I stuck only to those articles instead of the some real anti dempsey stuff which call him "an over hype fighter by the white media who had only a handful of defenses against mainly mediocore contenders."