Is Ray Robinson's speed overstated?

[Greatest1942]

Leonard was that in his early career,very true ,was he anything like that or even tried to play the role of one later on towards his last great victories. He was a good puncher.NO doubt but he was no where near Ray's class there at least. ON film and also on paper(by percentage of Knockouts) Ray hit harder.Look at Ray's punching past 35 and look at Leonards past 30 ...Tell me who's better.

Yes , you said that mate,that Roy jones combo was scintillating, though yes the opposition though not a sitting duck helped matters, Still from a 40 something GREAT!!!

[Spartacus Sully]

I gather that Ali's jab was proven with a synchroniser to be slightly quicker than Ray's. I think that Roy Jones, Meldrick Taylor, Floyd Patterson and possibly Ray Leonard had slightly quicker hands. But Ray was certainly one of the fastest punchers in history.

rays was only like a 10th of a second slower and even with the 50 lb weight difference id bet it was harder then alis.

[Sugarj]

rays was only like a 10th of a second slower and even with the 50 lb weight difference id bet it was harder then alis.

Hee hee, I hope you're joking!

I'd seriously doubt that Robinson's jab was harder than Ali's. Pound for pound maybe, but in a serious lb per square inch test I'd doubt it would be close. There was nothing soft about prime Ali's jab!

[Sugarj]

Leonard was that in his early career,very true ,was he anything like that or even tried to play the role of one later on towards his last great victories. He was a good puncher.NO doubt but he was no where near Ray's class there at least. ON film and also on paper(by percentage of Knockouts) Ray hit harder.Look at Ray's punching past 35 and look at Leonards past 30 ...Tell me who's better.

Yes , you said that mate,that Roy jones combo was scintillating, though yes the opposition though not a sitting duck helped matters, Still from a 40 something GREAT!!!

Well Leonard did look pretty devastating in knocking out Donny LaLonde, that was a savage finish. He also did try his best to knock out Tommy Hearns in rounds five and twelve of their rematch, no pitty pat combos there!

Remember, Leonard only had seven fights post 82. He knew there was no hope of him stopping Hagler or Duran, but barring those and his (hopelessly post prime) performances in losing to Norris and Camacho he was still pretty ruthless.

You did earlier say that Leonard was 'never' a 'KO artist'. He certainly was.

But as you say, yes Robinson was without doubt the heavier hitter, with the better longevity and the greater aggression. I'm a big fan of both!

[GJC]

Thing with Robinson was that he maybe wasn't the absolute best at anything, I have for example seen people say he was the best boxer but for me Pep was more skilled.
But Robinson didn't really have any weakness that springs to mind and if he wasn't the fastest he was fast if he didn't have the most skill he had skill in abundance etc etc.

Best fighter I've ever seen

[DeepSleep]

rays was only like a 10th of a second slower and even with the 50 lb weight difference id bet it was harder then alis.

It's really hard to throw a jab harder than someone whose arm is significantly heavier than yours.

[Greatest1942]

Well Leonard did look pretty devastating in knocking out Donny LaLonde, that was a savage finish. He also did try his best to knock out Tommy Hearns in rounds five and twelve of their rematch, no pitty pat combos there!

Remember, Leonard only had seven fights post 82. He knew there was no hope of him stopping Hagler or Duran, but barring those and his (hopelessly post prime) performances in losing to Norris and Camacho he was still pretty ruthless.

You did earlier say that Leonard was 'never' a 'KO artist'. He certainly was.

But as you say, yes Robinson was without doubt the heavier hitter, with the better longevity and the greater aggression. I'm a big fan of both!

he knew there was no hope of him stopping Hagler or Duran,

IN other words he knew while he could not even hurt two persons who had good chins...I am sorry friend but unlike you I believe any one can be knocked out, and Leonard did not fight like this only with these two.

My dear Friend, La Donde was not at his peak weight, he had to be weight drained to fight Leonard. And id you see his weights for other fights it does seem going down to 168 should affect him. Anyways I never said Leonard was a bad puncher, he was a good puncher kind a like Ali where the power is solid but nothing exceptional. Leonard, whatever way you put it is never an ATG puncher...

What else...Oh yes about Hearns, while Hearns is an ATG great P4P but at middle weight he did not take a great punch. Yes Leonard did punish him badly but point is could he finish him off. If Ray had Hearns hurt like Leonard did I will be betting my bottom dollar that Hearns will be knocked out. Leonard never came closing to hurt Hagler or even Duran (Both had exceptional chins granted ) , but in his fights with these two I never even saw him once stun either of them seriously. Punishing some one does not equal to KO power. Rather when you have a person hurt and cant knock him out, it doesnt ring good for your KO power. Put Hearns against Hagler, Monzoon, Sugar Ray or Fitz (True KO artists), Hearns does not see round 12.

[Spartacus Sully]

It's really hard to throw a jab harder than someone whose arm is significantly heavier than yours.

actaully a jab is similar to a staff and pokeing some one with it in this sense most of the jab is actually the weight behind it in this manner when you jab your actually flinging your back weight up over your shoulder( as well as diffrent factors if your stepping or falling with it) and better technique result in more weight behind it more weight behind it results in more resistance in the weight flinging up over the shoulder allowing for a higher top speed but more time from the initial movement.

with robinson having a 38 inch exp chest at 160 and ali having a 45 1/2 in exp chest at 210 it wouldnt really make sense for robinson to be able to jab harder jab not because of the arm but because of the chest difference and in turn back difference

though kenetic energy is e=1/2m*v^2 and 5 mph is just about the same as 50 lb say the mass behind robinsons jab is moving 5 mph top speed at impact faster then alis you would have just about the same impact and say robinson is moving 5 mph faster at impact, it would take him that much longer to return his fist explaining the slower time.

[Holtol]

Seen quite a few of Ray Robinson's fights. He looked fast to me but he did many things well. He once said something along the lines of being able to out rhythm other boxer's. He did not throw every punch as fast as he could. Like some fast boxers do.

[TheGreatA]

Seen quite a few of Ray Robinson's fights. He looked fast to me but he did many things well. He once said something along the lines of being able to out rhythm other boxer's. He did not throw every punch as fast as he could. Like some fast boxers do.

True. This is most notable in his jabbing. Usually more reminiscent of the way a Jose Napoles would throw the jab than a Thomas Hearns. He used it to set up his other punches most of the time.

This is why I feel Jim Jacobs's measurement of the speed between the jabs of Ali and Robinson, while interesting, is somewhat flawed. Robinson's true speed wasn't in his jabs, but his combinations. Also it should be a comparison of post-comeback Ali and a 30+ year old Robinson to make it level.