where does the peak tyson fit in

[tommyhearns804]

Well, I'll just list the first ten boxers that come to my mind and would've beaten the peak Tyson at their respective prime soundly:

Foreman
Jimmy Young
Joe Louis
Gene Tunney
Holyfield
Ali
Holmes
Lennox Lewis
Sonny Liston
George Chuvalo
Marciano
Max Schmeling
Riddick Bowe

Lol take out Marciano Tunney Louis Young Chuvalo Schmeling they would all lose.But you could add Ron Lyle who could beat Tyson Frazier Norton Quarry.Vitali Klitchko Wlad Klitchko Tua Ibeabuchi Rahman Douglas because he did.the list goes on and one kids

[oakleyno1]

Foreman- i agree would of beaten tyson at his peak
Jimmy Young - Iv onli seen clips of him but i do think tyson wuld be able to overwelm his jab
Joe Louis-tough fight for both i agree prehaps joe shud be on my list
Gene Tunney- i think tyson would of outgunned him tbh
Holyfield-prime tyson as in the one that beat berbick outpuches and stuns holyfeild to win a desision
Ali-yes ali would have won
Holmes- would have to be an absoulte wonder day remeber although he got up from shavers punch shavers was not a good finisher tyson was
Lennox Lewis - not a strong enough jab under pressure IMO
Sonny Liston - anotha prehaps but i thnk its more of a toss up
George Chuvalo - tyson Ko in round 9 i think
Marciano - as much as marceano was strong tyson would outgun him
Max Schmeling-nooo
Riddick Bowe - even at his peak when he beat holy etc tyson would stil win a easy points desision

remeber in 86/87 tyson could go 12 rounds np

[Muchmoore]

Good post my man Oakley

Tyson would Ko Foreman in 6.
Tyson would beat Jimmy Young in 10
Tyson would beat Joe Louis in 4
Tyson would beat Tunney by Ud
Tyson would beat Holmes in 9
Tyson would beat Marciano in 11
Tyson would beat Lewis in 5
Tyson would beat Liston in 5(this would be the toughest one)
Tyson would beat Chuvalo by TKO in 6
Tyson would beat Bowe in 8
Max Schmeling?Your kidding right?

Thats my opinion

[Dude]

Good post my man Oakley

Tyson would Ko Foreman in 6.
Tyson would beat Jimmy Young in 10
Tyson would beat Joe Louis in 4
Tyson would beat Tunney by Ud
Tyson would beat Holmes in 9
Tyson would beat Marciano in 11
Tyson would beat Lewis in 5
Tyson would beat Liston in 5(this would be the toughest one)
Tyson would beat Chuvalo by TKO in 6
Tyson would beat Bowe in 8
Max Schmeling?Your kidding right?

Thats my opinion

Well, I'm sure I'll regret it soon but let me waste some time and put these predictions right.

Tyson loses against Foreman because Big George never was afraid of anyone and a lot thougher than Iron Mike. Foreman had the power in both hands to knock any fighter out and he did best against fighters that came to him (Frazier being the prime example). Mike Tyson stylewise is lost here.

Tyson loses against Jimmy Young because Young had the speed and the boxing skills to hold Mike at bay. Tyson has some chances in this one though but Young proved more than once that he was able to jab his way to a UD against power packed KO artists (see his fight vs. Foreman).

Tyson loses to Louis in every department. Joe Louis in my very personal opinion is the best heavyweight that ever fought. He showed that he was human when he let Schmeling hit him with his big right hands but after that he only become stronger and better. Louis has reach, ring movement, ring intelligence, balance and his defense working for him against a Tyson that never was faster nor thougher than Joe. After being in the ring with Louis for 5 rounds Tyson would be likely to knock himself out just to get out of there.

Tyson loses to Tunney because Tunney showed against Dempsey how to defeat the man that invented the style that made Tyson successful. Tunney would have to gain some weight though.

Tyson loses to Holmes because Larry would outbox him all night long. Holmes was far too intelligent and accurate a boxer to even let Tyson come close enough to unload. Larry also had one of the best jabs the HW division ever saw. Plus Mike showed the tendency to get frustrated and careless during fights he was losing. You can't afford a moment of carelessness against Holmes.

Tyson loses to Marciano based on heart and determination alone. His only chance would be a cut that might force a stoppage under todays understatement of the rules. Apart from that scenario Marciano has the power and the heart to stand toe to toe with Mike (whos power always was a little overrated) and knock him out. Marciano always found a way to win while Mike is more known for finding ways to lose and get out of there.

Tyson loses to Lewis because Lewis is too big for him. Lennox punishes him with his jab and his straight rights until Mike loses any interesst in trying to rush in. It'd be similiar to the fight with Holmes. Lewis isn't as fast as Larry but boxed as intelligent and would have no problem to hold Tyson on the outside where Iron Mike would be lost.

Tyson loses to Liston just on sheer intimidation. Can you imagine Liston being afraid of Tyson? And now can you imagine Tyson being afraid of Liston? I can. Liston has the power and the boxing skills to take Tyson apart in convincing fashion (see his fights with Floyd Patterson).

Tyson loses to Chuvalo because their's no way he knocks him out. And besides haveing an iron chin Chuvalo had some power and solid inside-skills as well. It takes a lot of skill AND thoughness to beat a fighter like Chuvalo. Tyson never was though.

Tyson loses to Bowe because Bowe could fight him on the inside or on long range and be effective either way. Bowe showed against Holyfield that he can take a punch and give some back immediatly. Tyson is not the kind of fighter who expects to get hit back. In fact Tyson lost most of his bouts when somebody started hitting him back with some bad intentions. Bowe is better than Berbick ever was and could do a lot more damage to Tyson. If Iron Mike can't win a fight on the inside he certainly can't on long range. Especially not against a fighter like Bowe.

Tyson loses to Schmeling because Max showed that everyone can be knocked down and out against Louis. Schmeling often gets underrated because of the pounding Louis gave him in their rematch. But Max was a great fighter and more than gritty enough to hang in there with Tyson and dish out some of his fatal right hands. Schmeling was very accurate with most of his punches. And he never gave up. Sth. that cant be said about Tyson.


Iron Mike loses most of these fights based on his lack of heart and thoughness alone. The rest of them are out of his reach because of his style or because he'd be outclassed.

Mike had the power and the speed to loke like sth. very special against medicore opposition. Yet he never defeated another great fighter in or even close to his prime. Tyson was the youngest heavyweight champion ever, that's sth. you can't take away from him and that'll ensure his place in boxings hall of fame. But he is the definition of an overhyped one-dimensional KO-Artist. I've got all of his fights on DVD and I'd have loved to see his career going differntly. He certainly was a very good heavyweight, just not a great one.

[tommyhearns804]

Dude as i said don't even bother trying to use logic with Muchmoore of all of the people i seen name post on any of the forums i am a member of this guy has to be the worst.Lewis already knocked out Tyson.Lewis is older than Tyson so the little excuse Tyson was old and past his prime dont work because as i said Lewis is older.Holyfield knocked out Tyson already.Tyson ducked a old Foreman.If Tyson can't knock out Douglas a guy who was knocked out 5 times before he even faced Tyson then how would he knock out Foreman?He also couldnt handles Douglas power so Foreman would of crushed him.Jimmy Young was a slick boxer and a much better boxer than James Tillis who almost beat Tyson so Young should beat Tyson.Liston wouldn't be afraid of a woman beating rapist but Tyson would fear him just like Tyson feared Foreman.Liston by early Ko.I was thinking about Chuvalo and he should be able to beat Tyson actually.He hit harder than Holyfield or Douglas.Chuvalo has a better chin than Douglas Holyfield Lewis Williams or Mcbride and Tyson couldn't knock them out.Chuvalo went toe to toe with a young Foreman while Tyson ducked a old one.Chuvalo was fearless and would wear Tyson down and stop him.Bowe is a harder puncher than Lewis and has a better chin.Lewis a slightly better boxer but if a guy like Mrbride could make Tyson quit then Bowe would hand a coward like Tyson his ass in one 1 or 2 rounds .As i said you could of named Tua Ibeabuchi Vitali or Wlad Klitchko Frazier Norton Lyle Quarry or even a guy like Marciano if he was natually over 200 pounds.
Again people of this good post if you see Muchmoore post anything just skip it.As i said he one of those guys who dreams of having sex with Tyson.He is one of those idiots who will find every excuse in the book to cover for Tyson losing.I was thinking i just remembered something this is the same idiot who once said on the Larry Holmes forum that Tony Tubbs is just as good as Ali.No kidding he was trying to say the people Tyson fought were better than the people Ali fought.And he said Tubbs was better than Ali,Ruddock was better than Foreman,Berbick was better than either Frazier or Norton.This guy is a waste of space.Maybe who ever in charge here will just ban him from this post now instead of just reading how stupid this guy is and getting pissed off and then banning him.

[ricecrispi]

Hearns, you are the moron, read the topic, "where does the peak tyson fit in."

That means Tyson in his prime and at his peak, not after 1990-91 when he was already shot or after 1995 when he got out of jail.....Geez are you ******ed. If you want to make a claim or comparision do it like DUDE and compare the fighters style, skills, and weakness. He did it the right way. DUDE very good job.

A young 20 yr old Tyson would knock out the Kevin McBride version Tyson in a minute. I don't agree with him though on all the points. Tyson has a long shot winning a fight pass the 4th round...... Problem is a peak Tyson didn't go pass the 2nd round that often either........

You also called Joe Louis a bum and overrated. Same for Marciano

[tommyhearns804]

lol you are a ****** no heterosexual man defends a man who rapes and beats women.tyson had no peak.he beat up bums who just about any decent fighter could beat and lost when he fought any fighter who didnt fall for the bull around him.And rice unless you are blind you could go back and read over and over how i broke down Tyson and every other fighter i posted about.infact i am probably the only one who will break down what i say.
a peak tyson didnt go past 2 rounds?and your point is?before tyson went to jail for the first time who did he fight?mith green= bum,spinks=blown up light heavyweight who shyt his pants like a girl,james tillis is=a bum but still alost beat tyson.(on 2 of the scorecards tillis only lost by 2 points so if he didnt get knock down the fight would of been a draw)James Smith was he great?Did beating Smith make Tyson some all time great?
You believe a young Tyson could knock out Mcbride in one round?Kid you must be ******ed.The last thing to leave a fighter is his power.Tyson hit Mcbride and Mcbride walked right through them like Tyson punches were nothing.A young Tyson would be Mcbride by never in one round.Let me ask you something and the rest of the people here maybe on of you can answer.
1 Who is better a prime Michael Moorer or Kevin Mcrbide and who has the better chin.Just look who Mcbride was knocked out too and compare that to who knocked out Moorer and tell me what you think.
2 If Foreman could knock out Moorer at 45 then why can't Mike Tyson beat Mcbride when Tyson is only 38.
3 Foreman could go toe to toe with a prime Holyfield and stun him through out the fight so why if Tyson is better than Foreman and has a better chin than Foreman he couldnt even get past Holyfield without getting knocked out when Tyson was only 30?
4 When Foreman was 48 he still had the power to make Shannon Briggs run like a scared woman but yet Tyson couldnt even beat Danny Williams a complete nobody when Tyson was 36 or 37?
5 Why when ever you mention how Tyson lost to Lewis people will say Tyson was old but Lewis is even older than Tyson?
6 Why is it that people will make excuses about why Tyson lost to Douglas then bash Foreman for losing to Ali?Foreman never trained period in his career.Just read what the people around Foreman at the time said.They basically said Moore and Saddler said no man could handle Foremans power so there was no point in really making him train.He just did a little road work and sparred every once in a while.So if you are going to say Tyson didnt train then Foreman didnt either.And who would you rather lose to Ali or get destroyed to Douglas?)
7 Besides a washed up Holmes did Tyson ever show he could knock out a world class fighter in his prime?So why would any sane person say he could knock out the likes of Foreman Ali Frazier ect?
8 How many times did Tyson get knocked down and get up and win a fight like Holmes Frazier Ali Foreman Holyfield did?
9 So based off your own answers and logic why you assume Tyson could beat any great fighter in their prime?So why would you say he is great.
Could anybody please answer these questions please.

[tommyhearns804]

And ricecrispi Marciano and Louis are overrated big time.Let me break it down for you again.
1 Was Marciano a heavyweight?Nope at best he would be a slightly bigger light heavyweight today.And if you say well if he fought today he would be alot bigger then you are wrong.Marciano wasn't tall he couldnt just add weight and expect it to make him better.Marciano was a small man period just look at how short his arms were.
2 How many 230 plus pounds did Marciano fight in his career?1 and he was a guy name Jerry Jackson and he was a complete bum only 2-1 at the time he fought Marciano.
3 Of the 4 best fighters Marcinao fought in his career 2 were naturally middleweights(Moore started his career at 155 and stayed at middleweight for 7 years and so did Charles)not to mention Moore had probably one of the worse chins of any fighters in any weight class to become champion i think Moore was knocked down over 30 times in his career and knocked out about 10 times.Charles wasnt much of a puncher but his chin was better than Moore.But anyway each ofthese fighters gave Marcinao a hell of a figh before losing.None were heavyweights.So based on this why would anybody say Marciano was one of the all time best heavyweights when he wasnt a heavyweight period and he rarely fought guys who weighed over 200 pounds.I think he just fought 7 guys who weighed over 200 pounds.
4 If it is so easy to move up 30 or 40 pounds so you can fight heavyweights then why hasnt anybody in the modern era of heavyweight fighters tried to move up and bang with the big boys and win?
5 If this is your theory will Marciano is tough then i have to say what is your point?Tough has nothing to do with you beating a man bigger and stronger than you.Tough has to do with lets say you get punched and the punch breaks your jaw.A tough fighter will fight through the pain.That is tough.Just look at Frazier isn't he tough?Yep he sure was but did that help him beat Foreman?Nope and why was that?because Foreman was naturally bigger and stronger than he was.
6 Since Marciano wasnt a heavyweight and didnt fight heavyweights then logic would be he isnt a all time heavyweight great wouldnt it?And besides that Marciano fought mostly bums to attain that 49-0 record right but how may of you think lets say Ali Foreman Frazier Norton Lyle Lewis Bowe Tyson Tua ect ect ect would of lost to the people Marciano beat?And i mean a old Louis too so if you say a young Louis would beat lets say a prime Tyson i dont mean that i mean the exact same age as when Marciano fought Louis.So basically Maricano has to be overrated.A really small cruiserweight who idiots believe could beat 230 pound heavyweights.
Louis is basically the same as Maricano a guy who fought mostly small fighters in his career.Never beating a world class heavyweight but it built up to be some all time heavyweight great.
To be great you need to beat greats or at at least world class fighters in their primes.Ali is great because he beat Foreman.Foreman is great because he beat Frazier Foreman also beat Norton.Frazier beat Ali and he beat Quarry.Foreman also beat Moorer who beat Holyfield who beat Bowe you get my point.
You can't be great because you piled up a record against bums like lets say Tyson.You get my point?And finally to be considered great at a certain weight class you need to actually fight at that weight class.Being a 180 pound fighter who fights 180 pound fighters dont make you a heavyweight ok ricecrispi.

[EXIGE]

at a boxers peak do you think there are many that could of beaten iron mike in 86/88 i dont think so i think
prehaps ali and foreman but i dont think that anyone else in history agaist a peak tyson would have won

what are your views

some people seem to think that Rocky Marciano would have but thats simply spurious.

[kapersky]

cant compare when mike tyson is ****ed up. looks at the way he fough in bruno 1 and looks closely at his body, it doesnt looks like he was trained. dont forget tyson use a lot of drugs and wrong medication. tyson acomplished a lot in very short time which also was his prime.