Rank these hw's H2H

[Toney616]

tyson would lose to Lewis the same way he lost to Lewis, he would struggle to get inside...quick Tyson quote, "Its hard getting inside on the big guys." He would eat too many power punhces on his way in. He'd get frustrated and quit or he would struggle to a unanimous defeat..

You cannot use the Tyson-Lewis fight as a blueprint for the h2h prime fight. Tyson was a shell of the great fighter he once was. In his prime he used to bob and weave under jabs and use his explosive leg power which allowed him to close the gap on his much bigger opponents. See the Ribalta and Biggs fight. How many power punches did he eat on the way in against Holmes, Biggs, Thomas and Tillis? Not many. The kind of jab that gave Tyson fits would be a Ali, Holmes or Douglas Jab. Not the slow pawing jab which Lewis had, it had more pop on it, but it wasnt frequent enough to keep Tyson off him. As for the Tyson quote, even if it is true it proves what exactly? Im sure he found it hard to ko big guys as well, didn't stop him from doing it though.

I think Tyson beats Bowe but has the same problem with foreman and Vitali. Bowe just never proved anything to me, I dont know when his prime was, and I dont know if he would be capable of fighting Tyson smart.

Bowes prime would be around the time of the Holyfield fights. He had a great chin, good jab, solid power and could fight on the inside and outside. He also had Eddie futch in his corner as well.

Tyson vs Foreman: Foreman is a big punching slugger who preferred punching range is mid range. Tyson is a come forward puncher who fights at mid range as well. Which means his going to end up taking bombs from Foreman. The question is how many of those bombs can he take?
Tyson vs Vitali: I need to watch some more fights on this guy before I can give a breakdown on this fight. Vitali doesnt fight anytrhing like Foreman though, he prefers to use the jab, straight rights and left hooks. Tyson would beable to close the gap much easier on him, than say an Ali or Holmes. I cant really see Vitali's jab keeping him at bay either. I would argue that Vitali is a long range fighter, while Tyson was a mid range fighter. So its really a case of who can control the fighting range.

Liston never fought anyone over 225 lbs. He only fought one person over 215. How do you know how he'd fair against a super heavy?

Cleveland Williams was a massive punching hw and Liston stopped him twice. Foreman used to spar with Liston and admitted that Liston's jab was so hard that he used to make him back up in sparring sessions.
Lewis was given fits by Frank Bruno who was a 8 round fighter, slow and had a weak chin. He gave Lewis fits because he was comparable in size to Lewis and had a decent Jab. If Bruno gives Lewis trouble, Liston can give Lewis trouble. Also why are you focusing on the weight for? Your chin doesnt know how much you weigh.. If Rahman and McCall can ko Lewis with one punch and Bruno and Holyfield can stun him numerous times, just imagine what a power punch from Liston would do to him

So to say someones trolling for saying a person bigger and stronger than anyone Liston ever faced would beat him?

And how can you know this? What did Lewis ever do that proves he was stronger than Liston? Let me guess because he weighs more,......right?

Listons jab would look sweet, until its not a 6 foot tall 184 pounder coming at him. What does Bruno have to do with liston? Besides being...I dont know 20lbs bigger, 3 inches taller and fighting totally different

Reach Weight Height
Bruno 82″ 228 6′ 3″
Liston 84″ 213 6′ 0½″
Liston had a better chin than Bruno, longer reach, better stamina, much better technically offense/defense,and had a better jab

Lewis KO'ed Bruno. I dont get it.

He koed Bruno because Bruno had a bad stamina problem and faded in all of his fights past 6 rounds, he only went the distance once in 40+ pro fights

Liston had a hard time with marty Marshall and lost to him...hows he going to beat Lewis?

You have to look at his overall body of work, not just at bad performances that suits your argument. Why dont you talk about the Valdez fight or the Williams fights for example?

Quick question...who has a piston like jab, a chin further away, the same amount of KO losses, and a much better right than Liston? You guessed it Wlad Klitschko.

Please dont tell me you are another one of those boxrec warriors?
How many ko losses does Liston have lets see:
1:He was pulled out of the Ali fight for a shoulder injury. i.e he wasnt ktfo
2:He was up and fighting when Walcott, foolishly listened to Nat Fleisher and stopped his second fight with Ali. i.e he wasnt ktfo
3:He must of been pushing his 50's by the time of the Leotis fight, which was far from his prime as well
Is that comparable to Wlad who was ktfo three times by Journeyman to you?
Wlads jab is nothing like Listons jab either, how many guys has Vitali made back up with his jab alone? Liston backed up Cleveland Williams and Foreman with his jab in sparring. Who has Wlad backed up worth mentioning?
A much better right? Maybe, but what about left and right hooks and uppercuts. Their is much more the boxing arsenal than a straight right hand.
As for his chin being much further away, A part time golfer found it just fine

So I guess you think Wlad rips tyson apart then.

See the above points, which arent listed on boxrec

And of course young Foreman loses to vitali, he couldnt keep up with Vitali's stamina and Vitali aint being knocked down by no man. Vitali at 39 cant be knocked down. Foreman just tires himself trying to go punch for punch with big Vit and then Vit pushes him over in the 8th. Prime Foreman was very similar to young Wlad, big puncher, fought a fealess fight without anythought behind it.

Vitali was stopped by Lewis. I know you will moan and say it was a cut, but it was a cut which stopped him from fighting on. Also how many guys has Vitali fought, who hit as hard as Foreman......fat Sam Peter?
lol at the reference to the Zaire fight as well, tell me how many rounds has Vitali fought in Zaire?

Vitali would rip apart young Wlad.

Off Topic

[sonnyboyx2]

some very good analysis there from -lightsout-

[Toney616]

Lewis may have always keep Tyson at range and either hold or uppercut when Tyson tries to come closer. But then Tyson could have brutalized Lewis with elbows and hooks after dodging or/and absorbing some of the punches , or clinch himself if hurt.

What elbows are you talking about, in which fights did Tyson use them as a form of strategy? Lewis doesn't have the footwork or the jab of guys like Douglas, Ali or Holmes.

Foreman never faced a skilled , in shape fighter bigger than himself .
Lewis was somewhat bigger than Foreman , skilled almost to the max and relatively in shape.

Lewis was koed by Rahman and McCall, how on earth is his chin going to take bombs from Foreman? The closest Lewis ever came to fighting a fighter comparable to Foreman was fat Ray Mercer. A fight were he got a very debatable win. Not to mention the illegal tactics he was using in that fight.

Lewis did not struggle against Bruno , what a ****** myth , I watched the fight , nothing unusual , he struggled much more against a 39 years old Holyfield ..

Why dont you post up your scorecard for that fight
Lewis completely dominated Holyfield in their first fight I scored it 9-3 to Lewis.

Vitali could have beat Foreman and Tyson using his usual game , maybe getting tagged a few times in the process , but getting through .
But then Foreman is one of the few who stood a realistic chance at stopping Vitali and Tyson may have brutalized him too.

What does that mean? What is his usual game exactly? Wh has Vitali fought comparable to Foreman?

Tyson was significantly taller than Qawi , was stronger and in a much better shape and stamina than the overweight 230 lbs spastic Qawi who made Foreman look so bad , although it was a far from prime Foreman also .
Qawi barely reached Foreman due to these factors , Tyson could have reached him more often , quicker and with a much better leverage due to these reasons

Qawi was landing overhand rights on Foreman at will. Foreman was made to look bad due to all of the punches he missed and the ref allowed him to cheat as well.
Please stop using boxrec

When you watch these Liston fights come back to me with more claims about his greatness : Mart Marshall 1 , Johnny Summerlin 1,2 , Cassius Clay 1,2 (those you probably did).

I seriously doubt if you have watched any of those fights, which would be hard as hell to find. Not only that, they were when he was a green contender.i.e not prime. He was pulled out due to a shoulder injury during Clay I and was on his feet and fighting when Clay II was stopped, so you have brought those fights up ......because?

And I really doubt if Witherspoon was even an improved Norton , you overrate him way too much I notice.

What is there to doubt? What Witherspoon fights have you watched?

[Toney616]

some very good analysis there from -lightsout-

Thanks Sonny I learned alot from you, poet, Dynamite Kid and other guys here, as well as watching a lot of fights numerous times

[Joeyzagz]

I will concede that Liston has the best chance of beating Lennox out of all the current or past Heavyweights, but that doesnt mean it will happen.

Liston has never faced anyone with the same reach as Lewis
Liston has never faced anyone as tall as Lewis
Liston has never faced anyone over 230 lbs

Liston vs Lennox would be like a small pitbull meeting a Lion for the first time. Maybe the dog gets lucky, but i'll still take the Lion.

[frankenfrank]

What elbows are you talking about, in which fights did Tyson use them as a form of strategy? Lewis doesn't have the footwork or the jab of guys like Douglas, Ali or Holmes.

The elbows he rocked Spinks , Holmes , Bruno and others with , I thought you watched Tyson's fights

Lewis was koed by Rahman and McCall, how on earth is his chin going to take bombs from Foreman?

If he won't take it will work for him , Foreman's only opponents larger than himself were Savaresse and Cooney , both not exactly on Lewis' level .
If Savaresse , Morisson and Briggs could last the distance against Foreman quite successfully , what makes you think Lewis couldn't ?

The closest Lewis ever came to fighting a fighter comparable to Foreman was fat Ray Mercer. A fight were he got a very debatable win. Not to mention the illegal tactics he was using in that fight.

Actually Mercer was not comparable even with the shot Foreman.

Why dont you post up your scorecard for that fight
Lewis completely dominated Holyfield in their first fight I scored it 9-3 to Lewis.

Watched it at least 2 times , Holyfield definitely did not dominate him and I don't score fights round by round.

What does that mean? What is his usual game exactly? Wh has Vitali fought comparable to Foreman?

Vitali fought Lewis , Puritty , Sanders and Arreola .

Qawi was landing overhand rights on Foreman at will. Foreman was made to look bad due to all of the punches he missed and the ref allowed him to cheat as well.
Please stop using boxrec

Qawi with his acting and turning his back did not fight straight as well

I seriously doubt if you have watched any of those fights, which would be hard as hell to find. Not only that, they were when he was a green contender.i.e not prime. He was pulled out due to a shoulder injury during Clay I and was on his feet and fighting when Clay II was stopped, so you have brought those fights up ......because?

I did not watch them , but you did not either so know you don't know Liston and how lousy he really was.

What is there to doubt? What Witherspoon fights have you watched?

Bruno and Smith 2 .

[Die Antwoord]

You cannot use the Tyson-Lewis fight as a blueprint for the h2h prime fight. Tyson was a shell of the great fighter he once was. In his prime he used to bob and weave under jabs and use his explosive leg power which allowed him to close the gap on his much bigger opponents. See the Ribalta and Biggs fight. How many power punches did he eat on the way in against Holmes, Biggs, Thomas and Tillis? Not many. The kind of jab that gave Tyson fits would be a Ali, Holmes or Douglas Jab. Not the slow pawing jab which Lewis had, it had more pop on it, but it wasnt frequent enough to keep Tyson off him. As for the Tyson quote, even if it is true it proves what exactly? Im sure he found it hard to ko big guys as well, didn't stop him from doing it though.

Bowes prime would be around the time of the Holyfield fights. He had a great chin, good jab, solid power and could fight on the inside and outside. He also had Eddie futch in his corner as well.

Tyson vs Foreman: Foreman is a big punching slugger who preferred punching range is mid range. Tyson is a come forward puncher who fights at mid range as well. Which means his going to end up taking bombs from Foreman. The question is how many of those bombs can he take?
Tyson vs Vitali: I need to watch some more fights on this guy before I can give a breakdown on this fight. Vitali doesnt fight anytrhing like Foreman though, he prefers to use the jab, straight rights and left hooks. Tyson would beable to close the gap much easier on him, than say an Ali or Holmes. I cant really see Vitali's jab keeping him at bay either. I would argue that Vitali is a long range fighter, while Tyson was a mid range fighter. So its really a case of who can control the fighting range.

Cleveland Williams was a massive punching hw and Liston stopped him twice. Foreman used to spar with Liston and admitted that Liston's jab was so hard that he used to make him back up in sparring sessions.
Lewis was given fits by Frank Bruno who was a 8 round fighter, slow and had a weak chin. He gave Lewis fits because he was comparable in size to Lewis and had a decent Jab. If Bruno gives Lewis trouble, Liston can give Lewis trouble. Also why are you focusing on the weight for? Your chin doesnt know how much you weigh.. If Rahman and McCall can ko Lewis with one punch and Bruno and Holyfield can stun him numerous times, just imagine what a power punch from Liston would do to him
And how can you know this? What did Lewis ever do that proves he was stronger than Liston? Let me guess because he weighs more,......right?
Reach Weight Height
Bruno 82″ 228 6′ 3″
Liston 84″ 213 6′ 0½″
Liston had a better chin than Bruno, longer reach, better stamina, much better technically offense/defense,and had a better jab

He koed Bruno because Bruno had a bad stamina problem and faded in all of his fights past 6 rounds, he only went the distance once in 40+ pro fights
You have to look at his overall body of work, not just at bad performances that suits your argument. Why dont you talk about the Valdez fight or the Williams fights for example?

Please dont tell me you are another one of those boxrec warriors?
How many ko losses does Liston have lets see:
1:He was pulled out of the Ali fight for a shoulder injury. i.e he wasnt ktfo
2:He was up and fighting when Walcott, foolishly listened to Nat Fleisher and stopped his second fight with Ali. i.e he wasnt ktfo
3:He must of been pushing his 50's by the time of the Leotis fight, which was far from his prime as well
Is that comparable to Wlad who was ktfo three times by Journeyman to you?
Wlads jab is nothing like Listons jab either, how many guys has Vitali made back up with his jab alone? Liston backed up Cleveland Williams and Foreman with his jab in sparring. Who has Wlad backed up worth mentioning?
A much better right? Maybe, but what about left and right hooks and uppercuts. Their is much more the boxing arsenal than a straight right hand.
As for his chin being much further away, A part time golfer found it just fine

See the above points, which arent listed on boxrec

Vitali was stopped by Lewis. I know you will moan and say it was a cut, but it was a cut which stopped him from fighting on. Also how many guys has Vitali fought, who hit as hard as Foreman......fat Sam Peter?
lol at the reference to the Zaire fight as well, tell me how many rounds has Vitali fought in Zaire?

Off Topic

First of all im not going to read all that because youre a boxrec warrior.

Liston tried to cheat against Ali, when it failed and he was getting worked he with drew. That is a fact.

Liston was KTFO by a punch that Ali thought didnt even land.

Liston was 2 years younger than Vitali is now when he got KTFO by Leotis Martin.

Lewis has actually KO'ed people over 225 lbs.

Harder to hit someone whose chin is further away with true power, just a fact dude. Its called physics. Not that difficult.

Where do you get Liston had stamina? Please one example of him showing stamina. The longest 15 rounder he was ever in went 7 rounds and he quit. He went past 10 rounds 1 time. ONCE.

Ross Purrity at least wasnt 180 lbs like the guy who ko'ed liston early in his career and Wlad's other KO's (and I wont even talk about the drugging) were to guys bigger than the largest guy Liston ever fought.

Wlad has a better right and Left hook than anyone in the game. His straight right "Is the damned hardest thing I ever saw." -Emanuel. Wlad is a killer out there. His chin is so much further away than Listons, are you serious? kid Dynamites punches would have to travel a hell of a long way to reach it.

As for Vitali vs. Tyson. Vitalis a master at distance and even when he is hit theres no power i it because he has great reflexes and the ability to move back due to the fact that he is 6'8. He couldnt do that to a similar sized Lewis, but to smaller guys...game over, he can see their punches a mile away and knows he can take them easy.

Foreman's an arm puncher he wouldnt knock down the unknockdownable object that is Vitali.

[sonnyboyx2]

I will concede that Liston has the best chance of beating Lennox out of all the current or past Heavyweights, but that doesnt mean it will happen.

Liston has never faced anyone with the same reach as Lewis
Liston has never faced anyone as tall as Lewis
Liston has never faced anyone over 230 lbs

Liston vs Lennox would be like a small pitbull meeting a Lion for the first time. Maybe the dog gets lucky, but i'll still take the Lion.

You talk rubbish.. Liston had an 86ins reach and has fought many fighters who are as tall as Lewis and had a reach as long as Lewis...

Chuck Wepner
Gerhard Zech
Bill McMurray
Ernie Terrell (chief sparring partner)

Lewis always struggled with smaller fighters

[sonnyboyx2]

I will concede that Liston has the best chance of beating Lennox out of all the current or past Heavyweights, but that doesnt mean it will happen.

Liston has never faced anyone with the same reach as Lewis
Liston has never faced anyone as tall as Lewis
Liston has never faced anyone over 230 lbs

Liston vs Lennox would be like a small pitbull meeting a Lion for the first time. Maybe the dog gets lucky, but i'll still take the Lion.

If McCall & Rahman two mediocre journeymen can poleaxe Lewis then just think what Sonny Liston would do with him.. it would be a massacre a complete mismatch

[Joeyzagz]

You talk rubbish.. Liston had an 86ins reach and has fought many fighters who are as tall as Lewis and had a reach as long as Lewis...

Chuck Wepner
Gerhard Zech
Bill McMurray
Ernie Terrell (chief sparring partner)

Lewis always struggled with smaller fighters

I know Lewis struggled with a few smaller fighters, which is why I give Liston a better chance than say Foreman or Ali. But struggling does not equal losing..Lewis defeated everyone he ever faced , and I believe Liston would be another name on that list..

Lennox has an 84 reach and he moved 4X as fast as Chuck Wepner or any of the other names you mentioned. It would be a nightmare for Liston and I wouldnt be surprised if he quit on his stool.

And these "smaller fighters" you speak of were 6'2, 237 lbs and strong as an ox. (Mercer,Mccall) Who did Liston ever beat that was 230+ ?