Joe Frazier said the judges were paid off in the 2nd fight with Muhammad Ali

[frankenfrank]

Criminal offense? Kind of getting a little excited there. Not too au fait on the laws of Zaire so not sure what kind of sentence would be handed down for it!

You should really go as far as embracing the Mobutu Sese Seko regime laws to legalize what Ali's team/promoter/supporters did there.

Mobutu had the money to put up front to secure Ali and Foreman's signatures on the contract which then led to the fight. King did not even have seed money to get the fight underway.

OK.

This is 100% hindsight no one would have predicted that this game plan would work so who is to say that something else wouldn't work.
Ali was no Frazier

Fact is they needed that plot to have Ali winning.

Criminal plan You are really revealing your agenda now! Dundee was there what he says has more than a ring of truth, the only fairy tales are your claims.

No one denies the Ropes helped Ali to win , but Claytons like yourself will claim Ali would have always knows and every other option is just a wrong opinion. If Ali could have won otherwise he would not have used the rope-a-dope , if he used the rope-a-dope on tighter ropes , he would have really been battered en route to his first stoppage loss that would have brought descendants if Ali would have decided to continue fighting afterward.

King is the rookie? So from what you say you admit that it is unlikely that King's best interests were served by Ali winning? So how would it be a successful "crime"?

I already wrote I don't know all of King's motives and neither do you.

You don't know enough to attempt irony. So you'll have to explain your point less.

You mean more ?
I explained it fully and your claims about what would have been are less realistic than mine because mine rely on what happened and your rely on the mere belief in Ali's capabilities that were never put to the same test again , as he avoided a rematch with Foreman unlike he did with almost every other contender of his time. Foreman , as a world champion and the most dominant fighter of their era , before and after , deserved more than just a contender.

OK, Budini Brown who claimed that Foreman was drugged to earn a few $$$ for a bottle of Bourbon didn't claim this. Dundee didn't loosen them so who do you have doing it? As for hiring someone, by now they would have spent that money and sold the story but we are still waiting for the "truth" to come out. "Pursued by his camp" you think they chased someone through the jungle to coerce them into loosening the ropes? Please elaborate your criminal case might come to fruition

Ali isn't in the best of health can we just pretend that Wlad would beat him because he is so BIG and not send Ali to prison?

I meant convinced someone to do it for them , for the obvious reasons you can find on youtube.

[boxing boy]

The judges and referee scored the fight 8-4,7-4-1,6-5-1

The referee made a big mistake in the 2nd round when Ali hurt Frazier badly,and then backed Frazier into the corner,THEN.....HE THOUGHT HE HEARD THE BELL,and sent both fighters to there corners when there was still about 20 seconds left in the round.

We will never know what would have happened.Frazier was in the corner and hurt badly.Ali was getting ready to throw punches at the badly hurt Frazier,but the referee stopped the action.

Anyway,Muhammad Ali went on to win 8-4,7-4-1,6-5-1

[boxing boy]

Dundee did loosen the ropes ! he did it by putting a big ring's ropes in the small one. boxingboy is d one whom i learned this from and this is his thread , so this is d place 4u to verify it by asking it. Of course boxingboy , as a Clayton will deny/excuse and twist reality only to make Ali , Dundee and Don King seem innocent.

The ropes were loose because they were fighting in a small 16 foot ring.Most Championship fights are in 20-24 foot rings.Did Foreman's trainers make the 16 foot ring?

Let me ask you a question.....If you were George Foreman,would you want to fight Muhammad Ali in a 16 foot ring with a very soft padded canvas and loose ropes ,or a 20-24 foot ring with tight ropes and a fast canvas?

[StarshipTrooper]

Criminal offense? Kind of getting a little excited there. Not too au fait on the laws of Zaire so not sure what kind of sentence would be handed down for it!

Mobutu had the money to put up front to secure Ali and Foreman's signatures on the contract which then led to the fight. King did not even have seed money to get the fight underway.

This is 100% hindsight no one would have predicted that this game plan would work so who is to say that something else wouldn't work.
Ali was no Frazier

Criminal plan You are really revealing your agenda now! Dundee was there what he says has more than a ring of truth, the only fairy tales are your claims.

King is the rookie? So from what you say you admit that it is unlikely that King's best interests were served by Ali winning? So how would it be a successful "crime"?

You don't know enough to attempt irony. So you'll have to explain your point less.

OK, Budini Brown who claimed that Foreman was drugged to earn a few $$$ for a bottle of Bourbon didn't claim this. Dundee didn't loosen them so who do you have doing it? As for hiring someone, by now they would have spent that money and sold the story but we are still waiting for the "truth" to come out. "Pursued by his camp" you think they chased someone through the jungle to coerce them into loosening the ropes? Please elaborate your criminal case might come to fruition

Ali isn't in the best of health can we just pretend that Wlad would beat him because he is so BIG and not send Ali to prison?

Funny how these Soviets always think everything is a result of some sort of "plot" or "conspiracy".....might have something to do with the fact that Communists are always plotting and conspiring so they assume everyone else is too

Poet

[frankenfrank]

The ropes were loose because they were fighting in a small 16 foot ring.Most Championship fights are in 20-24 foot rings.Did Foreman's trainers make the 16 foot ring?

Second time I am asking you this question since you ignored it the last time :
Should the ropes fit to the ring ? yes or no ?

Let me ask you a question.....If you were George Foreman,would you want to fight Muhammad Ali in a 16 foot ring with a very soft padded canvas and loose ropes ,or a 20-24 foot ring with tight ropes and a fast canvas?

Did someone offer him these 2 options ?
I don't know what I would have chosen.

[frankenfrank]

Funny how these Soviets always think everything is a result of some sort of "plot" or "conspiracy".....might have something to do with the fact that Communists are always plotting and conspiring so they assume everyone else is too

Poet

Now he made a commy out of me.

[Vadrigar.]

Of course, he isn't really seeking to actually make sense: That isn't the goal! It's all about trying to discredit a fighter whom he dislikes because his personally favorites from recent years don't compare favorably to him.....hence his rabid support for MagicMan's smear thread about Ali

Poet

This bull**** about Dundee loosening the ropes is all part of his agenda of making BIG fighters look superior to comparatively smaller ones. In this case he was proven wrong with an eight round knockout of a bigger fighter, but the ****** makes fallacious excuses to keep consistent with his principle.

For something to be true (technically a tautology), it must hold true for every example. For something to be false it only needs to be demonstrated as wrong in one example. That's how pure mathematical logic works.

But this is one of many examples in which his agenda is exposed.

[Vadrigar.]

Funny how these Soviets always think everything is a result of some sort of "plot" or "conspiracy".....might have something to do with the fact that Communists are always plotting and conspiring so they assume everyone else is too

Poet

Yeah, it's possible some of these trolls could be communists.

[StarshipTrooper]

Now he made a commy out of me.

If the kransky shoesky fits wear it

Poet

[GJC]

You should really go as far as embracing the Mobutu Sese Seko regime laws to legalize what Ali's team/promoter/supporters did there.

I'm sure even in Zaire they like a little proof

Fact is they needed that plot to have Ali winning.

Again an ill informed guess based on hindsight.

No one denies the Ropes helped Ali to win , but Claytons like yourself will claim Ali would have always knows and every other option is just a wrong opinion. If Ali could have won otherwise he would not have used the rope-a-dope , if he used the rope-a-dope on tighter ropes , he would have really been battered en route to his first stoppage loss that would have brought descendants if Ali would have decided to continue fighting afterward.

Considering how well Ali fought off the ropes, if he would have used the rope a dope on tighter ropes it would have helped him. Watch the fight. Foreman landed enough punches on Ali to KO him if he could. If Foreman wanted to wear Ali down he needed to work the body more, Ali leaning back offered his body more but Foreman head hunted. Watch the fight.

I already wrote I don't know all of King's motives and neither do you.

No but I can make an educated guess on what didn't suit King and it is a guess which you can't chip away at because it is logical.
[QUOTE=frankenfrank;9044843
You mean more ?
[/QUOTE]

No I meant less as in pointless as is your entire argument.