gotta love joe frazier

[uncle_rico]

But that doesn't mean he whould beat Tua. Despite the bobing and weaving, Frazier was hittable on the inside as was proven by the Ron Stander fight. I just don't think he could bang with Tua, who's punching power was in the ball park of a Tyson or a Foreman, for too long. Like Tua, Foreman was also naturally bigger than Frazier by 15 pounds, and you saw what happened in those fights, which shows that Frazier had trouble with bigger stronger fighters as with most fighters who always come strait forward.

About Tua never being a champion, Tua and Frazier fought in two different eras. If you were drop Tua in Frazier's era, he may have won the title at some point because he has good size and power, and that really matters in the heavyweight division; and that's heavyweights are so much bigger now than ever before.

ok, you solid/valid points, i just wholeheartedly disagree...
it's just a matter of perspective, i guess.
frazier's era was arguably the best ever, i don't think tua woulda done
anything, certainly not gonna be foreman or ali. even a bit later,
holmes, spinks, and norton all woulda beat tua.
heavyweights are bigger now, but ****tier imo.

anyway, i wasn't tryin to rattle any cages, just that, when i started the thread, i saw that fight on espn classic and felt i should write something.
you just don't see fights like that in the heavyweight division anymore and i enjoyed.

[hellfire508]

ok, you solid/valid points, i just wholeheartedly disagree...
it's just a matter of perspective, i guess.
frazier's era was arguably the best ever, i don't think tua woulda done
anything, certainly not gonna be foreman or ali. even a bit later,
holmes, spinks, and norton all woulda beat tua.
heavyweights are bigger now, but ****tier imo.

anyway, i wasn't tryin to rattle any cages, just that, when i started the thread, i saw that fight on espn classic and felt i should write something.
you just don't see fights like that in the heavyweight division anymore and i enjoyed.

I agree buddy. Tua would have done **** all in the 70s. Frazier was a hell of alot better than Tua, and IMO would beat Tua head to head, fairly easily. thats right, EASILY!

[Easy-E]

Smokin Joe would SMOKE david tua, the comparison is disrespectful to the memory of smokin joe. david tua, come on

[paul750]

Smokin Joe would SMOKE david tua, the comparison is disrespectful to the memory of smokin joe. david tua, come on

Tua was able to take all those punches from 6'2 235lb Ike Ibeabuchi without showing any signs of hurt, he has also taken punches from the likes of Lennox Lewis and Hasim Rahman with no sign of hurt, i don't think those philadelphia left hooks would dent Tua's coconut, thats not being disrepectful to Joe Frazier.

[tommyhearns804]

When was Chuvalo tougher than Tua?Chuvalo was stopped tons of times he just didn't get knocked down.Tua has never been down as a pro or stopped.Tua punches alot harder than Chuvalo.Tua punches harder than Quarry.As i said i am sure i am a bigger fan of Fraziers than any of you and it bothers me when people remember the 70's they just focus on Ali when Frazier beat him first.
But Frazier wouldn't own the devision today.Vitali is to tall and strong to loser to Frazier.I would say Peters is to big and strong but Peters is a lard azz and would of probably only weighed about 220 or so if he was in shape.And Peters has yet to beat anybody worth mentioning.Frazier would beat guys like Barrett,Byrd,Ruiz, all in the same month.But when you get to guys with great chins and great punches then Frazier would have alot tougher time than you like to think.
Frazier=great fighter but his style or coming right toward you would always lead him to being destroyed by any real big puncher.Most of your little kids would say Foreman had no skill at all and he destroyed him.And most of you will say Lewis hits just as hard and has better skill and stamina which he doesn't but you think so though so wouldn't that mean guys like Lewis would beat Frazier worse than Foreman did?

[uncle_rico]

When was Chuvalo tougher than Tua?Chuvalo was stopped tons of times he just didn't get knocked down.Tua has never been down as a pro or stopped.Tua punches alot harder than Chuvalo.Tua punches harder than Quarry.As i said i am sure i am a bigger fan of Fraziers than any of you and it bothers me when people remember the 70's they just focus on Ali when Frazier beat him first.
But Frazier wouldn't own the devision today.Vitali is to tall and strong to loser to Frazier.I would say Peters is to big and strong but Peters is a lard azz and would of probably only weighed about 220 or so if he was in shape.And Peters has yet to beat anybody worth mentioning.Frazier would beat guys like Barrett,Byrd,Ruiz, all in the same month.But when you get to guys with great chins and great punches then Frazier would have alot tougher time than you like to think.
Frazier=great fighter but his style or coming right toward you would always lead him to being destroyed by any real big puncher.Most of your little kids would say Foreman had no skill at all and he destroyed him.And most of you will say Lewis hits just as hard and has better skill and stamina which he doesn't but you think so though so wouldn't that mean guys like Lewis would beat Frazier worse than Foreman did?

frazier had one bad night against foreman. big deal.
you can't assume every big man would do that to frazier, especially not the *****in bums* of this era.
lewis was knocked the **** out twice embarassingly, joe would
kill him. that guy didn't have the discipline to beat frazier.
and who cares about tua? what has he done? frazier would kill him.
as for vitali losing to frazier? he stands still, how can he beat frazier? he was almost knocked out by corrie sanders!!
the guy is doing what now? workin in a car wash?
there's a reason why everyone, *everyone* says the last five years have the been worst in heavyweight history, cuz these
guys suck. who cares how big they are, they suck.
frazier's one bad night against foreman doesnt mean he'd lose
to other big guys that way.

if you wanna suggest frazier would have a tough time with bigger fighters, ok, i agree, ones like lewis who boxed and moved and could be, yes, i agree would be tough for joe.
but tua? sure he's tough, but this is joe frazier. who cares how big tua is, joe threw a million punches a round and continued doing so even when he was old and finished. anyone under 6 feet,
joe would prolly destroy. tua, tyson, whomever...

[kapersky]

yeah right tua and tyson. joe is not that good

[tommyhearns804]

Lewis was knocked down 2 times in his career so your point is?Both guys weighed about 230.Ali was almost knocked out by Henry Cooper a 190 pound glass chin bum.Vitali is hurt right now so again what is your point?It is ok for fighters like Kostya or how ever you spell his name to beat hurt for a year or more but not Vitali?Sanders is a world class fighter.So if you feel Vitali was hurt or not is unimportant.Tyson was knocked out by Douglas a complete bum.
And Foreman crushed Frazier 2 times.It wasnt just one bad night.And i bring up Foreman because like i said based on most guys who don't know boxing Foreman is the worse fighter who ever lived.And Lewis is claimed to have better stamina and better power and better skills than him.So if Foreman could crush him then Lewis.I don't know which Tua you are talking about who doesnt throw alot of punches.Did you see him fight Ibeabuchi?When you stand infront of Tua he throws punches.Tua has problems with taller boxers just like Frazier did and Tyson did and any other short heavyweight will.As i said Tua has never been hurt at all as a pro.Frazier has.Frazier went down 8 times to Foreman and 2 to Bonevena.Does this mean Frazier had a bad chin?Hell no Frazier had a grade A chin.No shame in getting knocked down or out by a prime Foreman.And Bonevena was a top level fighter who could really bang as well.The point is to this date nobody as a pro hurt Tua.So why would Frazier be able to do it?Frazier would lose period.
But anyway as the post said you have to love Frazier.He showed tons of heart and courage through out his career.

[uncle_rico]

"But anyway as the post said you have to love Frazier.He showed tons of heart and courage through out his career."

yeah, that was really the point of the thread when i started it.
i saw a fight on espn classic, thought it was great and was inspired to write about smokin joe.

so yeah, joe got his ass handed to him by foreman, but despite what others say, lewis is not foreman. foreman is one of the all time great heavies, i'm not ready to put a guy who got knocked out by rahman and mccall in that category. so, i disagree with the logic that if foreman can beat frazier, so can lewis.
lewis, imho, is not close to foreman.
so, i think frazier can knock lewis out, but i also think
in a rematch, steward would smarten lewis up and he could
give joe difficulties. but still, i like joe 2 outta 3 with lewis.

as for tua, i just think frazier would be too much for him.
yeah, no one has hurt tua, but no one fights the way frazier did; non stop punches. tua don't have the stamina for that.

as for vitali, i just think he's so very typical of todays crappy heavies, big statues who aren't very good.
they are big and "strong", but don't move well.
i'm not at all impressed by klitchko.
i see these guys just like primo carnera. he was 6'6' 260, everyone in the world was scared of him until he was knocked the **** out.
oh, and sanders is not world class.
if you think so, it's only becuase todays heavyweights suck so
bad, guys like sanders are considered "world class".

[BadMagick]

espn classic just showed frazier vs. ron sanders (i'm on the east coast).
for those of your who haven't seen it, think of a 4 rd
heavyweight corrales/castillo.
sanders wasn't a top notch guy, but it was a brutal
slugfest that was stopped cuz of cuts.
really, frazier was something else.
he just takes and takes and keeps coming and coming.
obviously his style didn't work against a mammoth like foreman
(tho i think he woulda been better in a rematch),
but i can see him absolutely killing moden guys his size like tyson or tua.
i was watchin a rerun of calvin brock/mcline and i think frazier
would destroy those guys, man oh man.

They did rematch, he lasted three rounds longer, and got TKOed again.