Sugar Ray Leonard VS Roberto Duran(P4P All Time Great)

[prinzemanspopa]

"I knew the history of Duran and that's why I asked for the rematch so soon because I knew he was in celebratory mode. I caught him in the middle of that. This all goes back to tactics." -Ray Leonard (page 195 in the book "Hands of Stone".)



Judging by the mass of backslappers and party people surrounding him, Duran had no intention of staying in shape or fighting anytime soon. "I got back to Panama and felt like king of the world," he said. I start drinking and get fat, I am with women up and down. I go to New York and its the same thing there. I get up to two hundred and twenty-five pounds." -Roberto Duran (page 195 in the book "Hands of Stone".)

"Duran started training late and had only about two months to lose what he claimed was seventy-eight pounds, though other reports claim it was closer to 185 pounds rather than 225. Certainly he looked decidedly pudgy when he sat ringside for the pitiful Larry Holmes-Muhammad Ali title fight in Vegas on October 2," (pages 195 and 196 in the book "Hands of Stone")



"Fifteen days before the fight he was twenty pounds over the weight. Arcel told me I had to postpone the fight but when I told my friend the promoter he said it was impossible because he put a lot of money into that fight. -Carlos Eleta (page 196 in the book "Hands of Stone")

Unless you can supply better evidence than this you just got owned big time.

He had three and a half months to lose weight and sure as hell didn't need to lose "seventy eight pounds".You'd have to be incredibly ****** and naive to actually believe that gross exaggeration.


http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...y+agreed&hl=en



Duran's manager said he got up close to 180,which wasn't out of the norm.Duran was around 170 earlier in the year as he was getting ready for a tune-up fight.


http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...uran+170&hl=en


Arcel had the following to say about duran just prior to his rematch with Leonard: " is(Duran) better for this fight than he was for the last one."



http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...yor+shot&hl=en

[JAB5239]

He had three and a half months to lose weight and sure as hell didn't need to lose "seventy eight pounds".You'd have to be incredibly ****** and naive to actually believe that gross exaggeration.


http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...y+agreed&hl=en

This article tells us nothing.

Duran's manager said he got up close to 180,which wasn't out of the norm.Duran was around 170 earlier in the year as he was getting ready for a tune-up fight.


http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...uran+170&hl=en

Again, this article tells us nothing. what Duran did before the Leonard rematch has no bearing on what occurred leading up to the Leonard rematch.

Arcel had the following to say about duran just prior to his rematch with Leonard: " is(Duran) better for this fight than he was for the last one."



http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...yor+shot&hl=en

Its is Arcels best interest to sell the fight if he cant get it postponed. Even you should know that. I've given you direct sources. You've given crap. Owned!

[HaglerSteelChin]

Duran i thought looked quite well in his fight with Palomino which is about a year or so before the SRL fights. I haven't gone through his career set in a while, so i can't say if he loss alot from his heyday in the early to mid 70's. Duran was inconsistent in his career. He had a bad 1982 than came back well in 1983 when he beat Pipino Cuevas, Moore, and went 15rds with hagler.

Duran did win perhaps two rounds in the SRL rematch and i had one even.
So i had SRL winning 4-2-1 when he quit in Round 8. Was he at his best? Probably not, but far from his worse, the guy was trying hard.

In interviews he gave to spanish networks he always made the weight an issue. He even made that an issue when he loss to Hearns in 2 rounds. I felt it was just a bad decision to go down back 154 after the fight with Hagler. Also why take Hearns after 15 rounds with Hagler? He even talked about how he overtrained for Benitez. In the Benitez fight he looked a little more weak than the Leonard rematch.

IMHO, the stuff that happened in ROund 7 in New Orleans is why he quit. Mentally he couldn't tolerate the stuff the Bolo Punch, Ali shuffle, and the rest of the SRL gimmicks.

If Duran had been totally shutout or run out of gas in the later rounds than maybe we can make the weight an issue, Duran tried that night.

It also important to remember the ring size of the rematch. I believe it was fairl big at 21 feet? I just go by memory and try to recall the circumstances.


SRL was not flat footed and on his toes in New Oreans, when SRL was on his toes used his reach, and had that ring size, i don't think any version of Duran beating him, just my humble opinion.

[prinzemanspopa]

This article tells us nothing.

It tells us that a rematch had been verbally agreed up in mid august,some three and a half months before their rematch did take place.

Again, this article tells us nothing. what Duran did before the Leonard rematch has no bearing on what occurred leading up to the Leonard rematch.

It does,actually.It shows that Duran bloating up in-between fights was the norm and happened all the time,not just this one isolated period.That in his preparation for the rematch with Leonard,there was no real difference to any other time he had entered camp.

Its is Arcels best interest to sell the fight if he cant get it postponed. Even you should know that. I've given you direct sources. You've given crap. Owned!

That's right,you obviously know more about Duran's preparations than Duran's own trainer.



I also gave you direct sources,you were simply too thick-headed and caught up in the stench of your own bull**** to read them.A classless move on Duran's manager to make a claim on a man who was no longer alive to confirm this.I don't recall Arcel making such claims when he was alive.

[JAB5239]

Here is another bit of insight that proves Duran was in much better condition for the first fight than the second. "Duran arrived in New York on April 13 to begin training a Grossingers. People knew he was serious when he was nowhere to be found on the club circuit." -Page 184 from the book "Hands of Stone"

So lets see.....he wasn't partying for the first fight, but was admittedly, by himself, Leonard, Arcel and Eleta partying for the second fight. How could he have been just as good for the rematch, and what does Leonard have to gain by confirming this story?

[GJC]

Duran did win perhaps two rounds in the SRL rematch and i had one even.
So i had SRL winning 4-2-1 when he quit in Round 8. Was he at his best? Probably not, but far from his worse, the guy was trying hard.

I had it 4-2-1 too and I think the judges had only a couple of rounds in it, plenty of time for Duran to turn it round.
Think the Leonard horsing around frustrated him and maybe he figured that Leonard was going to stay out of reach and he didn't have the legs to chase him down?
Is one of those fights that people remember the highlights of or haven't really seen it and have Leonard boxing Duran's ears off for 8 rounds, not strictly the case. Leonard was "on" that night and Duran was below par but Leonard had better fights than that although Duran 2 seems to be remembered as his tour de force.

[boxing89]

Sugar Ray in my opinion

[HaglerSteelChin]

I had it 4-2-1 too and I think the judges had only a couple of rounds in it, plenty of time for Duran to turn it round.
Think the Leonard horsing around frustrated him and maybe he figured that Leonard was going to stay out of reach and he didn't have the legs to chase him down?
Is one of those fights that people remember the highlights of or haven't really seen it and have Leonard boxing Duran's ears off for 8 rounds, not strictly the case. Leonard was "on" that night and Duran was below par but Leonard had better fights than that although Duran 2 seems to be remembered as his tour de force.

Duran was far more dominated by SRL in their 3rd fight. The only thing Duran did to SRL in the third fight was cut his eye very late in RD 11 of that fight.

Duran as you said had enough time to make a comeback. Why he quit is speculated by many. He had stomach cramps and such was used and some even thought he took ******* or another drug. There was an interview by Cosell with both SRL and Duran some time after the fight. Some even say he never said "No Mas" but said No Mas con el payaso(No more with the clown).

I felt that ring was problematic as Duran i felt quit more for mental than physical reasons. Duran was a warrior and even fought with a hurt hand before, i doubt stomach cramps was the reason he quit.

[JAB5239]

Here is another bit of insight that proves Duran was in much better condition for the first fight than the second. "Duran arrived in New York on April 13 to begin training a Grossingers. People knew he was serious when he was nowhere to be found on the club circuit." -Page 184 from the book "Hands of Stone"

So lets see.....he wasn't partying for the first fight, but was admittedly, by himself, Leonard, Arcel and Eleta partying for the second fight. How could he have been just as good for the rematch, and what does Leonard have to gain by confirming this story?

Can anybody answer this question?