Why did Liston throw the 2nd fight with Ali?

[prinzemanspopa]

because da men in da hoodz threatened to reveal Sonny Liston's real age and his real gender.




I was under the impression this was the 'boxing history' section rather than the 'Muhammad Ali' section.


Out of all the Ali topics available,you choose perhaps the most played out,generic topic of all,that only a newb could remain interested in.

[Miburo]

I find it ridiculous that some Ali homers (notably in the media) still often argue for the legitimacy of the Phantom Punch. You can see Ali himself saying "He laid down!" to his corner right afterwards looking confused, but apparently no amount of evidence is enough.

[boxing boy]

I find it ridiculous that some Ali homers (notably in the media) still often argue for the legitimacy of the Phantom Punch. You can see Ali himself saying "He laid down!" to his corner right afterwards looking confused, but apparently no amount of evidence is enough.

Thank God there are not many Ali homers who believe he really knocked out Sonny Liston.Liston had a great chin,and hardly blinked from some of the bombs that Cleveland Williams hit him with.

This was Muhammad Ali's ONLY first round KO in his entire career! Thankfully there are few Ali homers who believe he really KO'd Sonny Liston in the first round.

[Sugarj]

True, Liston in my mind threw that fight. The punch looked innocuous, even Ali seemed disgraced that Liston went down.

As to why Liston took a dive here are a few thoughts/ponderables:

1) The mob wanted to make a killing on a first round KO bet? Only problem was that there were no reports of anyone making a terrific win. There would be terrific odds against Ali getting a first round KO.

2) The Black ******s had threatened Liston with death if he didn't lose? Who knows, they are credited with wiping out Malcolm X? There is no evidence for this though. Perhaps with the memory of Malcolm X's death fresh in mind Liston took a dive so as to avoid the possibility of retrobution should he have won.

3) Perhaps there was a gorgeous girl waiting for him. There were rumours of Liston being told to KO his opponent's early because the 'squeeze' his handlers had brought for him would leave early if the fight dragged on late. I personally think this is ridiculous! But so was the fight ending!!!!

4) Liston was a complex character, after two minutes of swinging and for the most part missing he may have thought 'f##k this'. the 1964 fight was humiliating enough, but in 1965 Ali looked even bigger and much more confident.

5) Liston may not have been in the best of shape. He had apparently trained very well for the original return date, which was delayed due to Ali's hernia troubles. The idea of a new training camp may have simply left him stale and demotivated. Granted......he did look in good shape (to the eye!) for the match, but Liston never turned up for a fight in obviously poor shape.

6) Liston was vilified as champ, he got a lot of bad press. Nobody seemed to like him. Why would he want to reclaim a championship that brought him grief and misery?

[Fighting Marine]

True, Liston in my mind threw that fight. The punch looked innocuous, even Ali seemed disgraced that Liston went down.

As to why Liston took a dive here are a few thoughts/ponderables:

1) The mob wanted to make a killing on a first round KO bet? Only problem was that there were no reports of anyone making a terrific win. There would be terrific odds against Ali getting a first round KO.

2) The Black ******s had threatened Liston with death if he didn't lose? Who knows, they are credited with wiping out Malcolm X? There is no evidence for this though. Perhaps with the memory of Malcolm X's death fresh in mind Liston took a dive so as to avoid the possibility of retrobution should he have won.

3) Perhaps there was a gorgeous girl waiting for him. There were rumours of Liston being told to KO his opponent's early because the 'squeeze' his handlers had brought for him would leave early if the fight dragged on late. I personally think this is ridiculous! But so was the fight ending!!!!

4) Liston was a complex character, after two minutes of swinging and for the most part missing he may have thought 'f##k this'. the 1964 fight was humiliating enough, but in 1965 Ali looked even bigger and much more confident.

5) Liston may not have been in the best of shape. He had apparently trained very well for the original return date, which was delayed due to Ali's hernia troubles. The idea of a new training camp may have simply left him stale and demotivated. Granted......he did look in good shape (to the eye!) for the match, but Liston never turned up for a fight in obviously poor shape.

6) Liston was vilified as champ, he got a lot of bad press. Nobody seemed to like him. Why would he want to reclaim a championship that brought him grief and misery?

Great post bro.

Did the punch land?? Yes

Was the punch powerful enough to KO a granite chinned Liston?? NO

[Sugarj]

Cheers bud

[tyger]

Some of still believe Liston didn't throw that fight.

[SBleeder]

He didn't throw the fight. He got hit with a punch that he didn't see coming... those always do the most damage.

[Toney616]

Yes,Ali was clearly mad that Liston threw the fight.He was mad and yelling at Liston to get up.Ali wanted to win fair and square,and was yelling at Liston to get up.He knew nobody would believe Liston going down from that "light" right hand.

Lol,Liston even looked bad throwing the fight.His acting was poor,trying to get up and then falling back onto his back.

Even Ali wasn't sure if he had ever been in the ring with the "real" Sonny Liston

[boxing boy]

He didn't throw the fight. He got hit with a punch that he didn't see coming... those always do the most damage.

PLEASE.....Muhammad Ali only had ONE first round KO in his entire career.

And it happens against the big bad unbeatable invinsible Sonny Liston.

It was said before the fight that NO ONE could KO Liston with his granite chin

It doesn't matter if Liston saw the punch or not,the punch wasn't hard enough to crush a g****.