Harold Johnson outpoints top heavyweight Eddie Machen

[boxing boy]

Joe Frazier also thinks that he would have beat Tyson and Marciano no problem and it is easy to imagine what he will say about Tua .
Machen was a journeyman in a weak era.
Holmes is saying Shavers hit him harder than Tyson , Lyle says Shavers hit him harder than Foreman , and Louis ranked Billy Conn above Rocky Marciano. Just believe everything they say.

Machen fought no stiffs!! And he was far from a journeyman in a weak era.

Machen won his first 24 fights before a draw against a brillian boxer Zora Folley.

Machen was named the most improved fighter of the year in 1956.

Machen beat Joey Maxim twice.He beat the Big Cuban Nino Valdes twice! Valdez was the #1 contender!

Machen also whipped Jerry Quarry!

Machen also beat Wayne Bethea,Doug Jones,Mike DeJohn twice.He beat Scrap Iron Johnson,and fought Cleveland Williams to a draw.

He fought and beat many more good fighters in a good era! It shows you know nothing about the era he fought in saying it was weak,when it was strong!!
http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/machen-eddie.htm

Check out the above website.I know your going to bring up alot of his losses when he was past his best,and never the same after his suicide attempt.

[DeepSleep]

Joe Frazier also thinks that he would have beat Tyson and Marciano no problem and it is easy to imagine what he will say about Tua .
Machen was a journeyman in a weak era.
Holmes is saying Shavers hit him harder than Tyson , Lyle says Shavers hit him harder than Foreman , and Louis ranked Billy Conn above Rocky Marciano. Just believe everything they say.

Why would Frazier say anything about Tua? Tua is nowhere near as good as the other guys Frazier mentioned.

[frankenfrank]

Machen fought no stiffs!! And he was far from a journeyman in a weak era.

Machen won his first 24 fights before a draw against a brillian boxer Zora Folley.

Machen was named the most improved fighter of the year in 1956.

Machen beat Joey Maxim twice.He beat the Big Cuban Nino Valdes twice! Valdez was the #1 contender!

Machen also whipped Jerry Quarry!

Machen also beat Wayne Bethea,Doug Jones,Mike DeJohn twice.He beat Scrap Iron Johnson,and fought Cleveland Williams to a draw.

He fought and beat many more good fighters in a good era! It shows you know nothing about the era he fought in saying it was weak,when it was strong!!
http://cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/machen-eddie.htm

Check out the above website.I know your going to bring up alot of his losses when he was past his best,and never the same after his suicide attempt.

Maxim was 35 and 10 years older than Machen and a year prior to his retirement upon losing twice on points to Machen ..
Most of the names you mentioned were not really as good as many posters here are trying to make them seem .
And besides , as good as they were , Patterson , Jones and Maxim were lightheavyweights , Machen was a legitimate cruiserweight , and still , all of his quality wins were by decisions , some of them close and maybe even disputed , that's the way with decisions many times as you probably know.
He went the distance with the overrated Liston in a losing attempt , but was KO'd by the lesser Ingemar Johansson in yet another losing attempt.
And some of the names you mentioned there were just no good at all .

[frankenfrank]

Why would Frazier say anything about Tua? Tua is nowhere near as good as the other guys Frazier mentioned.

Simply because Tua would have stopped him and Marciano early and easy , and is one of the few who stand a realistic chance of stopping a prime Mike Tyson.

[frankenfrank]

Pound for pound Billy Conn is a lot better then Marciano (imo), you disagree that Shavers hit harder then Tyson and Foreman ?.

Tyson's power mostly came from his speed and accuracy of his combinations I'm not underestimating his punching power but he didn't have the 1 punch power that Shavers had.

Lyle went toe to toe with both him and slugged it out, if anyone was to know who hit harder, it's him, can't really argue that.

If Foreman was to throw his entire body into a punch instead of just arm punches though there would of been a clear distance between them I'm sure :P.

I don't know if Shavers ht harder than Tyson and Foreman but fact Shavers was stopped by Lyle whom could rise against him but not against Foreman.
My point was that fighters credit the ones they beat more than they do with the ones they were beaten by.

[NChristo]

I don't know if Shavers ht harder than Tyson and Foreman but fact Shavers was stopped by Lyle whom could rise against him but not against Foreman.
My point was that fighters credit the ones they beat more than they do with the ones they were beaten by.

Ah k lol, read your post out of context.
My bad.

In that case I agree, they do seem to be like that, makes their wins seem more valuable then they actually were.

[boxing boy]

Maxim was 35 and 10 years older than Machen and a year prior to his retirement upon losing twice on points to Machen ..
Most of the names you mentioned were not really as good as many posters here are trying to make them seem .
And besides , as good as they were , Patterson , Jones and Maxim were lightheavyweights , Machen was a legitimate cruiserweight , and still , all of his quality wins were by decisions , some of them close and maybe even disputed , that's the way with decisions many times as you probably know.
He went the distance with the overrated Liston in a losing attempt , but was KO'd by the lesser Ingemar Johansson in yet another losing attempt.
And some of the names you mentioned there were just no good at all .

Your wrong on almost everything you say.I will respond to this post tommorrow and pick it apart.I have to go to work right now.

[DeepSleep]

Simply because Tua would have stopped him and Marciano early and easy , and is one of the few who stand a realistic chance of stopping a prime Mike Tyson.

Tua is a left hook and a good chin, nothing else. I think your overestimating Tua's greatness because of his punching power. He never really beat any great HW's outside of a pre '"Hug N' Mug" Ruiz, the only great Heavyweights he fought he lost to in one sided fights(Ibeabuchi, Byrd, Lewis). Tua is similar to a 90's version of Earnie Shavers with less power and a better chin.

[frankenfrank]

Tua is a left hook and a good chin, nothing else. I think your overestimating Tua's greatness because of his punching power. He never really beat any great HW's outside of a pre '"Hug N' Mug" Ruiz, the only great Heavyweights he fought he lost to in one sided fights(Ibeabuchi, Byrd, Lewis). Tua is similar to a 90's version of Earnie Shavers with less power and a better chin.

Tua has more power than Shavers and a better chin than almost everyone.
The reason why he doesn't use too many jabs and straight punches is his lack of reach , Tua would have destroyed any version of Ruiz and you also forgot to mention Moorer and Maskaev.
If you browsed through Tua's opponents records , you would have seen that he was the quickest to stop almost every one of them.
Darroll Wilson stopped Shannon Briggs and Bert Cooper , Tua stopped him in 1 round. Gary Bell stopped Jameel McCline , Tua stopped him in 1 round. Obed Sullivan gave a young Fres Oquendo problems and was usually tough , Tua stopped him in 1 round.
Tua made his opponents seem chinny even they were not.
After they lose quickly to him , they get dismissed as chinny , but people forget the rest of their performances.
Tua would have stopped almost every HW in history.
Even his losses to Byrd and Ibeabuchi are robberies , neither man beat him . Tua's sole loss is a decision loss against Lennox Lewis .
That Lennox Lewis KO'd Tyson , and stopped Hassim Rahman , Michael Grant and cut Vitali Klitschko to a stoppage , and then many more , but Tua lasted the distance with full respect despite missing range.

[boxing boy]

Maxim was 35 and 10 years older than Machen and a year prior to his retirement upon losing twice on points to Machen ..
Most of the names you mentioned were not really as good as many posters here are trying to make them seem .
And besides , as good as they were , Patterson , Jones and Maxim were lightheavyweights , Machen was a legitimate cruiserweight , and still , all of his quality wins were by decisions , some of them close and maybe even disputed , that's the way with decisions many times as you probably know.
He went the distance with the overrated Liston in a losing attempt , but was KO'd by the lesser Ingemar Johansson in yet another losing attempt.
And some of the names you mentioned there were just no good at all .

I'm not going to argue with you about Eddie Machen.

Your just going to bring up his losses.Especially when he was past his prime,and after his suicide attempt when he was below a .500 fighter losing 7 of his last 11 fights.

Geeezzzz,i could bring up Charles Burley's 12 losses to try and say he wasn't a great fighter too.

It doesn't matter if Machen was a light heavyweight,cruserweight,or welterweight he was still a very good HEAVYWEIGHT in a good era.

He fought and beat some good "true" heavyweights.......

Sonny Liston was cleaning out the HEAVYWEIGHT division by KNOCKING OUT everyone except Eddie Machen.And Liston was one of the best heavyweights ever!!

Eddie Machen beat Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams,but was robbed when it was ruled a draw.Almost everyone had Machen winning that fight.Do you know how good Cleveland Williams was? A Prime Cleveland Williams would have been a handfull for Muhammad Ali.GREAT A is the one who just said this!

Machen also beat the Big Cuban Nino Valdez twice! Valdez was once the #1 contender!

Machen also beat Mike DeJohn who was a good heavyweight,and weighed 216 lbs.

Machen beat these "true" heavyweights giving away 20-25 lbs!

He also beat other "true" heavyweights.

You just say other Machen victory's against fighters who were not "true" heavyweights doesn't count or matter.How wrong you are.It doesn't matter what you weigh if your one of the best Heavyweights in the world.I will give you just one example.......

Machen beat Doug Jones who wasn't a "true" heavyweight,but it doesn't matter because Jones was ranked the #3 HEAVYWEIGHT in the world at one time.Jones also fought Muhammad Ali even over 10 rounds my friend!

The weights of "true" Heavyweights when Machen fought them.

Sonny Liston 211
Cleveland Williams 211
Nino Valdez 212 & 216
Mike DeJohn 216

Joe Frazier said Machen was the best boxer he ever fought!

Alright,now go ahead and list all of Machen's losses without talking about the fights and wins i just listed.And go ahead and list the losses when he was past his prime or after he tried to commit suicide and was never the same....He lost 7 of his last 11 fights.