Who in your opinion is the greatest.....

[The_Demon]

...counter puncher of all-time?

[CarlosG815]

It is without a doubt Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[EzzardFan]

Gene Tunny or Joe Gans.

Joe Gans literally invented counter punching. Gene Tunny perfected it.

[The Beatles]

Gene Tunny or Joe Gans.

Joe Gans literally invented counter punching. Gene Tunny perfected it.

Floyd Mayweather Jr revolutionized and mastered it

[EzzardFan]

Floyd Mayweather Jr revolutionized and mastered it

I've been watching a bit of Floyd recently along with some Roy Jones junior and one thing always strikes me...

These are really entertaining guys to watch and their performances are spectacular, they totally piss over the majority of most of their opponents, constantly showboating, and making the other guy look inept. And this is what makes me somewhat skeptical.

Clearly these are phenomenally talented and naturally gifted boxing athletes with incredible speed and reflexes. The problem I have that their fights always remind me of an experienced boxer clowning around with a novice. Feed me a novice, one with just enough experience to react to my feints and I too can look spectacular in sparring.

The cynic in me suspects that these fighters are being fed a constant diet of tomato cans with manufactured records. You constantly see their opponents making fundamental errors, the same errors that all novices make, like trying to pat down jabs, exposing their jaw to hooks. The defensive skills of their opposition appear to be very limited.

When I watch clips of SRR or Ali these sometimes contain a small element of showboating, but there are also great defensive skills on display from the opponent. Neither SRR or Ali seem able to destroy their opponents the way that these modern ATG's do. The closest would perhaps be Ali's fight with Cleveland Williams, which was shortly after Williams got shot and was only a shadow of his former glory.

I also notice that quite often both RJJ and FMJ appear to be off balance which does not tally with them being quite the superhuman boxing machines that they are presented as being. Finally in the case of RJJ one of the intended tomato cans turned out to be a little more savvy than expected.

When I see these spectacular victories it makes me think that modern boxing is a bit of a Fame Academy manufacturing ATG boxers. It's almost like it's become a video game. Part of me even panics that the powers that be are slowly evolving it into some kind of boxing WWWF.

This post is not intended to anger or inflame, although I'm guessing that it probably will. But I gotta say: "I'm not sure the current emperor is wearing much in the way of clothes!"

[The_Demon]

Floyd Mayweather Jr revolutionized and mastered it

Lol,stop hanging off the guys nuts

I've been watching a bit of Floyd recently along with some Roy Jones junior and one thing always strikes me...

These are really entertaining guys to watch and their performances are spectacular, they totally piss over the majority of most of their opponents, constantly showboating, and making the other guy look inept. And this is what makes me somewhat skeptical.

Clearly these are phenomenally talented and naturally gifted boxing athletes with incredible speed and reflexes. The problem I have that their fights always remind me of an experienced boxer clowning around with a novice. Feed me a novice, one with just enough experience to react to my feints and I too can look spectacular in sparring.

The cynic in me suspects that these fighters are being fed a constant diet of tomato cans with manufactured records. You constantly see their opponents making fundamental errors, the same errors that all novices make, like trying to pat down jabs, exposing their jaw to hooks. The defensive skills of their opposition appear to be very limited.

When I watch clips of SRR or Ali these sometimes contain a small element of showboating, but there are also great defensive skills on display from the opponent. Neither SRR or Ali seem able to destroy their opponents the way that these modern ATG's do. The closest would perhaps be Ali's fight with Cleveland Williams, which was shortly after Williams got shot and was only a shadow of his former glory.

I also notice that quite often both RJJ and FMJ appear to be off balance which does not tally with them being quite the superhuman boxing machines that they are presented as being. Finally in the case of RJJ one of the intended tomato cans turned out to be a little more savvy than expected.

When I see these spectacular victories it makes me think that modern boxing is a bit of a Fame Academy manufacturing ATG boxers. It's almost like it's become a video game. Part of me even panics that the powers that be are slowly evolving it into some kind of boxing WWWF.

This post is not intended to anger or inflame, although I'm guessing that it probably will. But I gotta say: "I'm not sure the current emperor is wearing much in the way of clothes!"

Great post

[#1Assassin]

I've been watching a bit of Floyd recently along with some Roy Jones junior and one thing always strikes me...

These are really entertaining guys to watch and their performances are spectacular, they totally piss over the majority of most of their opponents, constantly showboating, and making the other guy look inept. And this is what makes me somewhat skeptical.

Clearly these are phenomenally talented and naturally gifted boxing athletes with incredible speed and reflexes. The problem I have that their fights always remind me of an experienced boxer clowning around with a novice. Feed me a novice, one with just enough experience to react to my feints and I too can look spectacular in sparring.

The cynic in me suspects that these fighters are being fed a constant diet of tomato cans with manufactured records. You constantly see their opponents making fundamental errors, the same errors that all novices make, like trying to pat down jabs, exposing their jaw to hooks. The defensive skills of their opposition appear to be very limited.

When I watch clips of SRR or Ali these sometimes contain a small element of showboating, but there are also great defensive skills on display from the opponent. Neither SRR or Ali seem able to destroy their opponents the way that these modern ATG's do. The closest would perhaps be Ali's fight with Cleveland Williams, which was shortly after Williams got shot and was only a shadow of his former glory.

I also notice that quite often both RJJ and FMJ appear to be off balance which does not tally with them being quite the superhuman boxing machines that they are presented as being. Finally in the case of RJJ one of the intended tomato cans turned out to be a little more savvy than expected.

When I see these spectacular victories it makes me think that modern boxing is a bit of a Fame Academy manufacturing ATG boxers. It's almost like it's become a video game. Part of me even panics that the powers that be are slowly evolving it into some kind of boxing WWWF.

This post is not intended to anger or inflame, although I'm guessing that it probably will. But I gotta say: "I'm not sure the current emperor is wearing much in the way of clothes!"

in some cases u are right, both floyd and roy fought a fair number of tomato cans. mosley, hopkins, calzaghe etc all did the same. its just a fact that these days the talent pool isnt as deep as it once was, hell we even see some of these bums get titles, like maccarinelli. im aware there are more titles around now, but could mac be a top 10 fighter at CW back when the killas were around? hell no.

at the same time both floyd and roy fought some legitimately great fighters aswell, and made them look just as bad. u cant discredit james toney, he wouldve been a top fighter in any era and roy did the same to him. and toney didnt have no make belief record eighter he fought his way to the top the hard way, and defended his titles against anybody taking fights like 6-8 weeks apart. roy and floyd grew up boxing, its all they know. they really are that good.

[EzzardFan]

in some cases u are right, both floyd and roy fought a fair number of tomato cans. mosley, hopkins, calzaghe etc all did the same. its just a fact that these days the talent pool isnt as deep as it once was, hell we even see some of these bums get titles, like maccarinelli. im aware there are more titles around now, but could mac be a top 10 fighter at CW back when the killas were around? hell no.

at the same time both floyd and roy fought some legitimately great fighters aswell, and made them look just as bad. u cant discredit james toney, he wouldve been a top fighter in any era and roy did the same to him. and toney didnt have no make belief record eighter he fought his way to the top the hard way, and defended his titles against anybody taking fights like 6-8 weeks apart. roy and floyd grew up boxing, its all they know. they really are that good.

Thanks, that was well thought out post and I found it informative.

[bojangles1987]

Floyd Mayweather isn't even the best counter puncher of the last 10 years, let alone ever. Juan Manuel Marquez is a better pure counter puncher than Floyd is, Marquez pretty much completely relies on counter punching.

[StarshipTrooper]

Wilfred Benitez. End thread.

Poet