Marciano is overrated - agree or disagree

[SpecialOne]

Marciano fought 5 or 6 ATG and beat them

But he beat them when they were passed it. If he beat all of them during there peak then obviously he should be ranked number 1 or 2 heavyweght of all time. I would say number one heavyweight and staying undefeated while doign that would be crazy

Marciano beat washed up legends, he isnt overated or underated. A lot of people doubt Marciano in fantasy match ups. He was a great fighter and could have proven a lot more if he hadnt retired due to injury

Good fighter, ATG and HOF

[BritishBoxing92]

His record is made up of bums, average contenders and old champions.

The Louis fight was pretty even, going into the final round. If Louis had been in his prime, he would've knocked Marciano out.

He was losing against Walcott and one lucky punch saved him.

He retired at just the right time, because Patterson would've beaten him.

STFU he aint overrated...he wouldve kicked pattersons arse like liston did..

Rocky Marciano Beated ATGs

-Joe Louis
-Ezzard Charles
-Archie Moore
-Jersey Joe Walcott
-Don ****ell

Rocky fighted Jersey Joe Walcott for 13 rounds in their 1st fight while he had a swollen shut eye where as most fighters would have quit...so no marciano wasnt overrated he is and always forever be in top 10 HWs off all time

[Schmerzen]

marciano would have beaten patterson, but not in the same brutal fashion as liston.
marciano wasnt bigger than patterson, he just punched harder.

[EzzardFan]

At the time Marciano was largely viewed as a crude swarmer. He is often accused of missing his punches by feet. That's something of an exaggeration but he did miss a lot. Being of pretty much identical dimensions to Marciano I can understand why this was. My height, chest, waist, and reach are all within an inch of his, and I weigh much the same as he did at his lightest, and struggle to maintain my weight like he did.

Pretty much everyone I spar with from lightweight up has a longer reach than I do - like Rocky's mine is 68". Believe me this really limits your options. Give me an inexperienced opponent and I can fight them as a distance, give me anyone else and I have no option but to try and get inside. This also means fighting out of a semi-crouch. You have to resign yourself to taking a beating and looking ****** for the first few rounds.

Short arms also limit the potential for Foremanesque slugging. Although short arms seem to assist with hitting harder (the arm being nearer the body and centre of mass gives it more leverage) you have to be able to reach the opponent to hit them.

With less experienced opponents it's possible to use deceptive footwork to lure them in closer then counter punch, but even then it's necessary to open out your shoulders and stretch your arms out to pull this off.

With big sluggers it's possible to sneak inside their swings like Archie using the armadillo defence then place your shots carefully.

But with a decent boxer you are left with no option but to swarm in. To limit his opportunity for hitting you on the way in, it's necessary to swarm in throwing hooks that have no chance of landing... initially. No point in jabbing because his reach is so much longer. At least the hooks add a bit of cover and kind of double as blocks, and of course they look real nasty. If you can force your opponent back then there's a good chance you'll eventually catch him, especially once he gets tired. None of this will make much sense if you're used to fighting with > 70 inch reach.

With short reach you're resorting to hit any part of him you can. One of my sparring partners asked why I kept striking his forearms, as he felt these were wasted shots, my reply was "see how they feel a few rounds from now".

In order to compete Rocky had to raise his condition to an awesome level. His body had to be toughened to sustain taking a pounding for the full distance. He required sufficient cardio to throw an average of 300 punches per round.

Some people query why if Rocky could punch so hard did it often take him so many rounds to register a KO. The truth is that it took him several rounds to catch his opponent, a few more to beat his guard down (and you need to hit really hard to accomplish that), and only then could he get inside and throw a big KO combo.

If you actually look at Rocky's defensive skills then they are very well evolved. Watch the Archie Moore fight where these skills are very much on display.

Rocky's strengths were:

Condition
Punching power
Swarming
Offensive evasive skills. It's a lot harder to be evasive if you have to go forward! Ali had it easy believe me.
In-fighting. Again watch the Moore fight to see the black art practised by two masters of it.

I believe that Rocky would have easily beaten both Patterson and Johansson. I also believe that he would have stood a decent chance against Liston (not a popular position I know). Liston never had to face a small durable swarmer with a granite chin and great cardio. Liston wasn't used to going more than a few rounds. Liston got scared if he couldn't intimidate his opponent. Liston wasn't used to going backwards, and if he kept going forward then he'd have ended up with Rocky inside him.

There's a great video on YouTube that showcases Marciano's underrated defensive skills, it's been posted on this site recently.

[hanzoh74]

So did Calzaghe and he sucks.

so did FMJ and he sucks more

[GJC]

At the time Marciano was largely viewed as a crude swarmer. He is often accused of missing his punches by feet. That's something of an exaggeration but he did miss a lot. Being of pretty much identical dimensions to Marciano I can understand why this was. My height, chest, waist, and reach are all within an inch of his, and I weigh much the same as he did at his lightest, and struggle to maintain my weight like he did.

Pretty much everyone I spar with from lightweight up has a longer reach than I do - like Rocky's mine is 68". Believe me this really limits your options. Give me an inexperienced opponent and I can fight them as a distance, give me anyone else and I have no option but to try and get inside. This also means fighting out of a semi-crouch. You have to resign yourself to taking a beating and looking ****** for the first few rounds.

Short arms also limit the potential for Foremanesque slugging. Although short arms seem to assist with hitting harder (the arm being nearer the body and centre of mass gives it more leverage) you have to be able to reach the opponent to hit them.

With less experienced opponents it's possible to use deceptive footwork to lure them in closer then counter punch, but even then it's necessary to open out your shoulders and stretch your arms out to pull this off.

With big sluggers it's possible to sneak inside their swings like Archie using the armadillo defence then place your shots carefully.

But with a decent boxer you are left with no option but to swarm in. To limit his opportunity for hitting you on the way in, it's necessary to swarm in throwing hooks that have no chance of landing... initially. No point in jabbing because his reach is so much longer. At least the hooks add a bit of cover and kind of double as blocks, and of course they look real nasty. If you can force your opponent back then there's a good chance you'll eventually catch him, especially once he gets tired. None of this will make much sense if you're used to fighting with > 70 inch reach.

With short reach you're resorting to hit any part of him you can. One of my sparring partners asked why I kept striking his forearms, as he felt these were wasted shots, my reply was "see how they feel a few rounds from now".

In order to compete Rocky had to raise his condition to an awesome level. His body had to be toughened to sustain taking a pounding for the full distance. He required sufficient cardio to throw an average of 300 punches per round.

Some people query why if Rocky could punch so hard did it often take him so many rounds to register a KO. The truth is that it took him several rounds to catch his opponent, a few more to beat his guard down (and you need to hit really hard to accomplish that), and only then could he get inside and throw a big KO combo.

If you actually look at Rocky's defensive skills then they are very well evolved. Watch the Archie Moore fight where these skills are very much on display.

Rocky's strengths were:

Condition
Punching power
Swarming
Offensive evasive skills. It's a lot harder to be evasive if you have to go forward! Ali had it easy believe me.
In-fighting. Again watch the Moore fight to see the black art practised by two masters of it.

I believe that Rocky would have easily beaten both Patterson and Johansson. I also believe that he would have stood a decent chance against Liston (not a popular position I know). Liston never had to face a small durable swarmer with a granite chin and great cardio. Liston wasn't used to going more than a few rounds. Liston got scared if he couldn't intimidate his opponent. Liston wasn't used to going backwards, and if he kept going forward then he'd have ended up with Rocky inside him.

There's a great video on YouTube that showcases Marciano's underrated defensive skills, it's been posted on this site recently.

Great post. I've always thought that Marciano would have taken care of the HW's that followed him up to Liston. Liston would have been a hard fight for Marciano but then Liston would have been facing a man with a granite chin who will be throwing as many punches in the 15th as the 1st and more importantly who wasn't scared of him. As for Marciano being over rated or under rated it depends really on how you see him.
If you view him as the greatest HW of all time then you are over rating him if you write him off that pretty much most HW's could beat him then you are under rating him.
I don't think he could beat every HW there has been but I'm pretty certain that he wold be a very hard nights work for any HW there has been. He wasn't pretty but he was very effective.

[Schmerzen]

marciano managed to stay undefeated in 49 pro fights, and made 6 title defenses.
i know more ppl who tend to underrate him than ppl who overrate him.
thats why i think he is underrated.
i have made a thread about the most underrated heavyweights once, and marciano was leading in the poll with sonny liston and larry holmes as far as i remember.
cant criticize him for fighting some blown up light heavys anymore, he had himself a reach of just 68".
one thing is sure, frazier vs marciano would be one of the most exciting fights in boxing history.

[TOBYLEE1]

He fought the available contnders of the time. That was his era and you can't "what if", it is history know. What he lacked in skills he had in endurance and determanation. No such thing of a lucky punch, there is a reason you throw punches, shame on the fighter that doesn't block it or avoided. Left undefeated so if didn't come prepared he would had lost any fight.

[mickey malone]

Great post. I've always thought that Marciano would have taken care of the HW's that followed him up to Liston. Liston would have been a hard fight for Marciano but then Liston would have been facing a man with a granite chin who will be throwing as many punches in the 15th as the 1st and more importantly who wasn't scared of him. As for Marciano being over rated or under rated it depends really on how you see him.
If you view him as the greatest HW of all time then you are over rating him if you write him off that pretty much most HW's could beat him then you are under rating him.
I don't think he could beat every HW there has been but I'm pretty certain that he wold be a very hard nights work for any HW there has been. He wasn't pretty but he was very effective.

Yes, he's a darn good poster is Ezzard.. Boxing knowledge and the Queen's English rolled into one!

Everyone gets overrated by somebody and Marciano is no exception.. But on the whole, no I don't think so.. In my opinion, he's at the lower end of the top ten, but will always be in the top 15 on every list i've ever seen.. Not overrated in my opinion..

[StarshipTrooper]

You all do realize you're responding to a wind-up merchant right?

Poet