Roberto Duran???

[tanibanana]

IBHOFers Duran beat:

Ray Leonard
Pipino Cuevas
Carlos Palomino
Ken Buchanan

Off the top of my head...

DeJesus probably should be in the Hall of Fame but isn't (and isn't on the ballot). Leonard, Cuevas, Buchanan, and Palomino are. Ernesto Marcel easily could be some day.

As to world champs/titlists, those five plus Kobayashi, Ishimatsu, Moore, Mamby, Barkley, Castro and really good contenders like Lampkin, Fernandez.

Add that many regard him the greatest Lightweight of All-Time and the best P4P fighter of the 70s, with about 3 times as many fights as Leonard, and the rating begins to take shape.

Thanks. So overall.. Duran beat 4 HOF'ers and 12 champions..

HOF'ers
Ray Leonard
Pipino Cuevas
Carlos Palomino
Ken Buchanan

Champs
DeJesus
Leonard
Cuevas
Buchanan
Palomino
Marcel
Kobayashi
Ishimatsu
Moore
Mamby
Barkley
Castro

[crold1]

Thanks. So overall.. Duran beat 4 HOF'ers and 12 champions..

HOF'ers
Ray Leonard
Pipino Cuevas
Carlos Palomino
Ken Buchanan

Champs
DeJesus
Leonard
Cuevas
Buchanan
Palomino
Marcel
Kobayashi
Ishimatsu
Moore
Mamby
Barkley
Castro

Yes and, worth noting, most of them prior to the existence of the IBF so there were often only two belts to go around.

[BennyST]

Off the top of my head...

DeJesus probably should be in the Hall of Fame but isn't (and isn't on the ballot). Leonard, Cuevas, Buchanan, and Palomino are. Ernesto Marcel easily could be some day.

As to world champs/titlists, those five plus Kobayashi, Ishimatsu, Moore, Mamby, Barkley, Castro and really good contenders like Lampkin, Fernandez.

Add that many regard him the greatest Lightweight of All-Time and the best P4P fighter of the 70s, with about 3 times as many fights as Leonard, and the rating begins to take shape.

Kobayashi, De Jesus and Marcel are already in the World Boxing Hall of Fame, and Marcel has been nominated for the last two years for the IBHOF. All three of them will get in to the IBHOF at some point.

You never know, even Barkley might get in one day, though he probably doesn't deserve to in all reality, but if a guy like Hatton can get in, then Barkley should be a shoe in with three division world titles, minor at HW, and with wins over ATG's, he's done more than some have to get in.

Add in that the only other losses he had to HOF'ers and anyone other than Leonard and De Jesus, both of whom he beat anyway, were all past thirty years of age, and at 154 or higher, that being his seventh division, after about eighty fights and two decades of fighting..... It's pretty impressive and you can see why he is usually ahead of Leonard.

Not only that, but he was a small guy, very small for a WW, and he had moved up to fight a very big WW (the equivalent of Margarito today) much younger etc and beat him when he was an underdog. That alone is impressive as neither Hagler (a career MW), Hearns (WW that won titles to CW), Benitez (JWW to JMW) or Lalonde (a LHW though he had to come to to it) could beat him. A little LW, arguably, past his best was able to though.

[Prinsemanspoper]

Plus his close fight with Marvin Hagler.

Duran fought him 15 rounds,not the 12 rounds Ray fought him.

Duran survived Hagler for 15 rounds and nothing else.Duran knew he wouldn't win and was obviously intimidated,which is why he made no attempt to win rounds.

A little LW, arguably, past his best was able to though.

Duran wasn't a little lightweight at all.You only have to watch his fights with Leonard and Palamino to tell that he's the same size.


Duran was at his peak when he beat Leonard.Duran was as complete as he ever was in 1980.

[BennyST]

Duran wasn't a little lightweight at all.You only have to watch his fights with Leonard and Palamino to tell that he's the same size.


Duran was at his peak when he beat Leonard.Duran was as complete as he ever was in 1980.

Really? Maybe I didn't word it right. He was a LW which meant he was a little guy for WW because he was an average sized LW. I'd say he was a pretty small WW and if you can't see a difference in the size between him, Palomino and Leonard then I'd say get your eyes checked. If it helps, go watch him against Buchanan, Villa, Mamby, Bizarro, Viruet etc.

All LW's and all noticeably bigger than him. He was a normal sized LW and a small WW. Everyone he fought after 135 was bigger than him. It's easy to see.

Yes, in that fight he had trained very hard and looked like his old LW form. Previous to that he had not looked good and had in fact looked slow, lackluster and fat at times. One of the reasons Leonard was such a big favourite was because most people considered Duran to be past his best at the time and too small for a big WW like Leonard.

Very few thought he had the power or size to compete at WW and most thought Leonard to have the power to hurt him, not the other way around. The guy he fought fight before Leonard hit him more than he was usual hit and it was commented on at the time that he was looking weak (chubby) around the middle, slow and without the same intensity of his LW reign.

Maybe you see something else entirely now (very easy to do in hindsight). I'm just commenting on what was thought and said at the time.

[Mantis_Atlantis]

I don't agree, Duran had a much higher KO percentage at lightweight than welterweight. In the welter fight he looked pudgy and slower than he did at lightweight. When we look at the absolute peak Duran you have to look at his best weight division which is lightweight. He was not as good in welter but yet good enough to beat a young SRL.

[BennyST]

I don't agree, Duran had a much higher KO percentage at lightweight than welterweight. In the welter fight he looked pudgy and slower than he did at lightweight. When we look at the absolute peak Duran you have to look at his best weight division which is lightweight. He was not as good in welter but yet good enough to beat a young SRL.

True. This is also what everyone thought at the time. He looked tired, pudgy and past it. He had one last great fight he got up for at his best form against Leonard and then that was it really. He never fought close to what he was able to at LW at his best.

[Prinsemanspoper]

The Duran apologists are out trying to make out as if he were washed up by the time he fought Leonard again I see.

Of course,Duran only loses when he's not feeling up to it,when he doesn't train at all.Duran was shot to pieces when he was 30 years old.


He looked just as fast,just as slick in 1979-1980 as he did during his lightweight days.



He looked just as good against Palamino as he did at anytime during his lightweight career.

[boxingbuff]

[QUOTE=Prinsemanspoper;7690637]Duran survived Hagler for 15 rounds and nothing else.Duran knew he wouldn't win and was obviously intimidated,which is why he made no attempt to win rounds.

What fight were you watching? Duran SURVIVED Hagler? You have to be kidding me.Duran made no attempt to win rounds? Get your eyes checked.Not only was Duran winning rounds,alot of other rounds were very close.Duran was in NO WAY surviving Hagler,he was giving Marvin everything he wanted.

Do you remember the score cards?

[Thread Stealer]

The judges were drunk in Hagler-Duran. Duran being ahead after 13 rounds was an absolute disgrace.

Duran was competitive, but no way should the fight have been that close. Just like one judge having Benitez beating Duran by just one round.