Old Benny Leonard beaten down by Jimmy McLarnin

[TheGreatA]

I agree. Do you think it's better than Bert's list? And who else do you think they had to high in the ring list?

It can't get much worse than Bert's list, in my opinion, but then again everyone has a different list. I just don't see the logic in some of those rankings. Luis Manuel Rodriguez did not even make the list. George Foreman a top 25 ATG?

[fisticwarfare]

A list that rates Aaron Pryor more than 20 spots above Jimmy McLarnin has no credibility whatsoever in my eyes.

Why disrespect Pryor? He's a lot better than the man in your avatar and sig..

[Southpaw16BF]

It can't get much worse than Bert's list

I just don't see the logic in some of those rankings. Luis Manuel Rodriguez did not even make the list. George Foreman a top 25 ATG?

Interesting. Do you feel LMR is worthy of being in a top 100 ATG? And any paticular reason you pointed out Foreman? Surely, you don't think Rodriguez was greater than Big George, right?

[TheGreatA]

Interesting. Do you feel LMR is worthy of being in a top 100 ATG? And any paticular reason you pointed out Foreman? Surely, you don't think Rodriguez was greater than Big George, right?

Watch the Rodriguez-Griffith fights and see if you'll score a single one of those in favour of Griffith. Even outside of the Griffith fights, Rodriguez has an impressive and extensive resume of wins in the welterweight and middleweight divisions.

As for Big George, he rose up the rankings because of his successful comeback although I don't think his comeback was all that great outside of the win over Moorer. During his prime years he blasted Frazier and Norton but was exposed by Ali and Young as a one-dimensional slugger. Outside of the big wins over Frazier, Norton, Moorer and to a lesser extent Lyle and Chuvalo, he didn't fight too many top ranked opponents.

[TheGreatA]

Why disrespect Pryor? He's a lot better than the man in your avatar and sig..

Because he beat a washed up Antonio Cervantes and Alexis Arguello in his 4th weight class (and arguably with questionable methods)?

Atleast Locche beat a close to prime Cervantes via shutout, beat HOFer Eddie Perkins, equally old Joe Brown (comparable to old Cervantes), drew with HOFers Carlos Ortiz & Ismael Laguna. Overall body of work is clearly in favour of Locche. Realize this, Nicolino Locche fought in the 1960's yet Pryor fought some of the opponents that Locche fought but in the 1980's...

Jimmy McLarnin had wins over more than 10 hall of famers and numerous top 10 ranked contenders. There's no possible way to rate Pryor over him.

[Southpaw16BF]

Watch the Rodriguez-Griffith fights and see if you'll score a single one of those in favour of Griffith. Even outside of the Griffith fights, Rodriguez has an impressive and extensive resume of wins in the welterweight and middleweight divisions.

As for Big George, he rose up the rankings because of his successful comeback although I don't think his comeback was all that great outside of the win over Moorer. During his prime years he blasted Frazier and Norton but was exposed by Ali and Young as a one-dimensional slugger. Outside of the big wins over Frazier, Norton, Moorer and to a lesser extent Lyle and Chuvalo, he didn't fight too many top ranked opponents.

I agree with some of the things your saying here, A.

But Foreman's wins over Frazier X2, Norton, Lyle, Chuvalo, Qawi, and Moorer, and his destruction over them. I'd say is fairly impressive.

And I rate him over LMR every day of the week. Because at the end of the day, he only got one of the Griffith fights, roberry or not. And lets not forget he was knocked out by Benvanuti and lets not forget his losses to Percy Manning Curtis Cokes, and Bunny Sterling to name a few.

Let me get your thoughts on this. Do you feel Ring had Hagler, Arguello, Olivares and Joe Brown to high?

And what do you think of Sugar having Monzon at #55 but Cerdan at #23?

[fisticwarfare]

Because he beat a washed up Antonio Cervantes and Alexis Arguello in his 4th weight class (and arguably with questionable methods)?

Atleast Locche beat a close to prime Cervantes via shutout, beat HOFer Eddie Perkins, equally old Joe Brown (comparable to old Cervantes), drew with HOFers Carlos Ortiz & Ismael Laguna. Overall body of work is clearly in favour of Locche. Realize this, Nicolino Locche fought in the 1960's yet Pryor fought some of the opponents that Locche fought but in the 1980's...

Jimmy McLarnin had wins over more than 10 hall of famers and numerous top 10 ranked contenders. There's no possible way to rate Pryor over him.

And Locche also lost to Cervantes..

Perkins was a good win, but Brown wasn't because he was beyond over the hill.

What you also fail to mention is that most people thought Ortiz beat Locche and it was actually considered a gift draw.

As for Pryor's wins, they were excellent. Everyone thought that Arguello was gonna beat Pryor. Pryor was a significant underdog coming into the fight. And Cervantes wasn't washed-up. He came off of a dominating victory of Miguel Montilla and won his next few fights after Pryor.

[Joey Giardello]

I agree with some of the things your saying here, A.

But Foreman's wins over Frazier X2, Norton, Lyle, Chuvalo, Qawi, and Moorer, and his destruction over them. I'd say is fairly impressive.

And I rate him over LMR every day of the week. Because at the end of the day, he only got one of the Griffith fights, roberry or not. And lets not forget he was knocked out by Benvanuti and lets not forget his losses to Percy Manning Curtis Cokes, and Bunny Sterling to name a few.

Let me get your thoughts on this. Do you feel Ring had Hagler, Arguello, Olivares and Joe Brown to high?

And what do you think of Sugar having Monzon at #55 but Cerdan at #23?

King of the middleweights Carlos Monzon at 55 is a joke! he should be top 20 at least on any of them time of lists

[TheGreatA]

I agree with some of the things your saying here, A.

But Foreman's wins over Frazier X2, Norton, Lyle, Chuvalo, Qawi, and Moorer, and his destruction over them. I'd say is fairly impressive.

And I rate him over LMR every day of the week. Because at the end of the day, he only got one of the Griffith fights, roberry or not. And lets not forget he was knocked out by Benvanuti and lets not forget his losses to Percy Manning Curtis Cokes, and Bunny Sterling to name a few.

Let me get your thoughts on this. Do you feel Ring had Hagler, Arguello, Olivares and Joe Brown to high?

Outside of the third Curtis Cokes fight, at the end of Rodriguez's prime, all his losses were decisions that should have gone his way. Obviously we can't change history entirely but to not even recognize Rodriguez as a top 80 ATG while rating Griffith in the top 35 is not logical. Rodriguez was past it by the time he fought Benvenuti and was winning the fight for 11 rounds until getting caught with a left hook.

I can't rate Qawi as a notable win for Foreman because Qawi was shot and grossly overweight yet he gave Big George some trouble.

And what do you think of Sugar having Monzon at #55 but Cerdan at #23?

It's wrong.

[Southpaw16BF]

Outside of the third Curtis Cokes fight, at the end of Rodriguez's prime, all his losses were decisions that should have gone his way. Obviously we can't change history entirely but to not even recognize Rodriguez as a top 80 ATG while rating Griffith in the top 35 is not logical. Rodriguez was past it by the time he fought Benvenuti and was winning the fight for 11 rounds until getting caught with a left hook.

I can't rate Qawi as a notable win for Foreman because Qawi was shot and grossly overweight yet he gave Big George some trouble.



It's wrong.

How high do you feel Cerdan should be ranked?