Is James Toney A ATG?

[mickey malone]

My post was partially directed towards you,not entirely.That post was directed towards ever boxing purist who thinks some silly shoulder roll makes a truly great fighter.



The part I directed towards you was where you make an excuse for Toney getting his arse handed to him by Roy Jones,and that mediocre resume that you listed.



Cut the potty mouth out too,Malone.

"Excuses lies and exaggerations" is condemning the whole of my post, and not just singling out one quote.. That is why you are a still a ****** prick..

[frankenfrank]

Oh,well there you go,Michael Nunn too.None of the others were elite.barkley was used up by the time Toney got him,and while he was a good,tough fighter,he was never an elite fighter.I,and every other true fan of the sport refuse to recognise his victory over Evander Holyfield.Vasily Jirov was an overrated paper champion who's a product of Toney's overrated legacy,and that fight wasn't close either,Toney beat the ever loving **** out of him.


Jirov was no Gomez,and he wasn't a Mormeck either.

Jirov wasn't a mormeck , that's why he was never stopped below 200.
jirov was a very good cruiserweight , who knows what would have happened had he fought gomez.

Ramon who?

he was a very seasoned amateur at 165 , whom also stopped ezra sellers at the pros and fought a decent level of opposition for his amount of pro fights (not very big)

Roy Jones moved up,and signed for a title fight at 168,how exactly was he to know what type of shape fat Toney was going to show up in?


Toney has struggled to make weigh at every weight class but one, in which there is no limit for his fat ass.


Toney signed to fight with a superior fighter who he thought was easy pickings and the easy picking ruined him and humiliated him.

of course he knew , he was very well managed and protected. for him , it was either toney , or fighting for the vacant title (again) .
every one knew toney was fat and had trouble making weight. it is a manager's / promoter's job to know such things. trust them.

[wmute]

It depends on your definition of ATG. With my definition the answer is a resounding yes.

[project xxx1]

he is for me,without a doubt

[bklynboy]

It depends on your definition of ATG. With my definition the answer is a resounding yes.

That's funny. Reading these posts my answer was:

"It depends on your definition of ATG. For me Toney is NOT an ATG."

I love/loved Gatti. I think he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame as he ought to be remembered. But Gatti, as much as I love him is not an ATG.

I can see why Toney is liked but I don't see as an ATG.

One of these days we should try to define the term.

[bklynboy]

Yes James Toney is one of the greatest fighters of all time and been avoided more than any fighter in boxing history.

Not arguing with you on whether Toney was or was not avoided. But how do we know?

Did Dempsey avoid Harry Wills? Or were there other factors involved?
Did Mayweather duck Pac; did Pacquiao duck Mayweather? Or was it something else.

This is a business with per fight promotions. Promoters make fights based primarily on what will make them the most money with the least risk of losing (if you're a champion). We, as fight fans, want to see the best match-ups.

If YOU as a fighter, or the attorney advising the fighter, have a choice of two fights both with about the same amount of money but one with much less risk wouldn't you take the one with less risk? It's a business.

As a fan I hate that. But business is business.

Back to main point: how do we as fans know when it's business and when it's a duck?

[General Zod]

I would place him somewhere between 90 -100 on the ATG list his best wins are:
Nunn
McCallum
Barkley
Tim Littles
Jirov
Holyfield

3 division champion as well

I had him losing the second McCallum fight as well as the Tiberi fight. Cant give him much credit for beatuing McCallum at cw either. As for the Roy Jones loss, Toney has only himself to blame for that loss, that was his first ppv fight as well.

[wmute]

That's funny. Reading these posts my answer was:

"It depends on your definition of ATG. For me Toney is NOT an ATG."

I love/loved Gatti. I think he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame as he ought to be remembered. But Gatti, as much as I love him is not an ATG.

I can see why Toney is liked but I don't see as an ATG.

One of these days we should try to define the term.

My definition is "someone who would be elite in any era".

[phallus]

I would place him somewhere between 90 -100 on the ATG list his best wins are:
Nunn
McCallum
Barkley
Tim Littles
Jirov
Holyfield

3 division champion as well

I had him losing the second McCallum fight as well as the Tiberi fight. Cant give him much credit for beatuing McCallum at cw either. As for the Roy Jones loss, Toney has only himself to blame for that loss, that was his first ppv fight as well.

My definition is "someone who would be elite in any era".

f.uck yeah......