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I like Dempsey in a hit out between 2 of boxings greatest KO artists.
Rock could be hurt and dropped early in bouts - Walcott, Moore, Charles. None of these guys had the animal instincts of Dempsey or his short range punching power a la KO of Jack Sharkey.Comment
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I was waiting for someone to bring him up.
Vingo was not a top 10 contender. He was 16-1-0 when he fought Rocky. In his last 7 bouts before he fought Rocky he had only 1 KO, and that was against a boxer that was making his pro debut.
Also, before he fought Rocky, he never fought a bout that was scheduled for more then 6 rounds. AND he was just 2 days passed his 20th birthday.
Good Prospect, BUT far from a contender.Comment
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Dempsey for me, i think overall was a better boxer was good at avoiding punches and very ferocious. I would love to see more footage of him!Comment
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When I was a kid, late 1950's early 1960's, the experts had Dempsey as #1 by a wide margin, as time went on, Louis took that over and now most feel that Ali is.
In 1950, the Associated Press conducted a poll of sportswriters to name the greatest fighter of all-time, pound-for-pound, and Dempsey was the runaway winner, collecting 251 votes. [Joe Louis finished a distant second with 104 votes; Henry Armstrong was third with 16.]
Note: the article below has Dempsey with 253 Louis 109 and Armstrong with 13, BUT I have 251, 104 and 16.
He was also voted 3rd, behind Jim Thorpe and Babe Ruth, as the Greatest male athlete in the 1st half century.
In the Dec 1962 Ring magazine Jack Dempsey was rated #1, and Joe Louis #2, Jack Johnson #3 and Marciano was a distant #6.
In 1991, Bert Sugar had Dempsey the top Heavyweight of all-times, now he has him at #3, behind Louis and Ali.
One thing I learned from Bert Sugar, and that is to listen to the old-timers, because they have a lot of knowledge. I talked to Ray Arcel and he had Dempsey rated very high as well.Last edited by hhascup; 02-11-2010, 10:46 PM.Comment
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I like Dempsey, but you never see much written about his defeats..When I was a kid, late 1950's early 1960's, the experts had Dempsey as #1 by a wide margin, as time went on, Louis took that over and now most feel that Ali is.
In 1950, the Associated Press conducted a poll of sportswriters to name the greatest fighter of all-time, pound-for-pound, and Dempsey was the runaway winner, collecting 251 votes. [Joe Louis finished a distant second with 104 votes; Henry Armstrong was third with 16.]
Note: the article below has Dempsey with 253 Louis 109 and Armstrong with 13, BUT I have 251, 104 and 16.
He was also voted 3rd, behind Jim Thorpe and Babe Ruth, as the Greatest male athlete in the 1st half century.
In the Dec 1962 Ring magazine Jack Dempsey was rated #1, and Joe Louis #2, Jack Johnson #3 and Marciano was a distant #6.
In 1991, Bert Sugar had Dempsey the top Heavyweight of all-times, now he has him at #3, behind Louis and Ali.
One thing I learned from Bert Sugar, and that is to listen to the old-timers, because they have a lot of knowledge. I talked to Ray Arcel and he had Dempsey rated very high as well.
Ok, a multitude of historians can't all be wrong, and he is notoriously highly placed on the majority of lists, but what of his defeats?
What was it about the styles of Gene Tunney and Willie Meehan that Dempsey couldn't handle?.. Does this kind'a suggest that Larry Holmes and Tony Tubbs would've had Jack's number too?
I'd also love your take on what happened in one of his fights with Jimmy Flynn..
Is there any evidence to suggest Dempsey took a dive?
Sorry to pick your brains Henry, but you really are an invaluale teacher on this subject.Comment
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I came across these two newspaper articles on another boxing forum.
SALT LAKE TRIBUNE--Feb 13, 1917
Flynn said last night "I wish I could be as positive of everything else in the future as I am that I am going to win this battle." He is so sure of victory that he is ever ready to back up his belief with some spare change. "That's gotten to be my business of late--teaching these young fellows boxing lessions," he concluded.
Dempsey is not inclined to boast, but considers himself faster than Flynn and as having a better punch. He points to the fact that he stood up before sluggers like Wild Bert Kenney, John Lester Johnson and others and that therefore he is not worrying about Flynn's attack. "Stepping stones, that's what you call them, isn't it? Well, that's what this bout is going to be for me tonight," said Dempsey.
SALT LAKE TRIBUNE--February 14, 1917
JACK DEMPSEY FLATTENED OUT IN 25 SECONDS
Jim Flynn Makes Quick Work of It at Murray; Local Man Unprepared for Onslaught
Jack Dempsey of Salt Lake lasted about twenty-five seconds in his match with Jim Flynn of Pueblo last night at Murray.
During those twenty-five seconds Flynn punched Dempsey twice on the right side of the head, twice on the left side, broke down Jack's gaurd with his right and put the finishing touches on with a steaming wallop with his left to the jaw.
Dempsey was out half a minute. When he began to regain consciousness in his corner he evidently thought he was still in a pugilistic encounter, for he put up a strenuous battle with those who were trying to bring him around.
Although Dempsey well knew that it is Flynn's way to start from the instant the gong sounds, hurling himself into the fray with all the speed and strength of which he is possessed Jack apparently made no preparation to meet that first onslaught. He looked like a man dazed by the swiftness with which things moved, and he was as helpless before those two rushes of Flynn as though he were but a child.
Taken By Storm
Those who have seen Dempsey fight have always admired his ability to take punishment but usually the punishment came in the course of a battle, and to have it come all at once, like a bolt of lightning, was too much for the local scrapper. Perhaps Dempsey could have made a better showing had he been able to weather the going for three or four rounds, but he certainly was helpless before the tornado which caught him right at the start.
During the few seconds the fight lasted Flynn made two attacks. At the beginning he bent his head downward and bored in whaling away with both hands. Then there was a wee bit of a lull, during which the referee tried to do some separating and next came the onslaught with its two blow finish.
Happened To Jim Once
Flynn himself is no stranger to the lightning knockout. Along in 1907, when Flynn and Joe Walcott were matched in San Francisco almost the identical end was put to the fracas as that which occurred in Murray last night. In the San Francisco affair Walcott and Flynn had no sooner shaken hands and separated than the negro let fly with a haymaker which put Flynn out for about thirty minutes.
Prior to the appearance of the men, Kid Egan and Slim Murphy gave a poor exhibition in four rounds. They were followed by Johnny and Alex Bratton, 9-year-olds, who sparred three one-minute rounds, and furnished all the sport that was seen at Murray last night. Those midget twins are wonderfully clever, and whack away at each other with a lusty ardor. They are equipped with soft gloves, and there is no fear of damage to either.Comment
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