Underrated defensive fighters

[BennyST]

Johnny Famechon!

Quite truly one of the most overlooked defensive fighters of the sixties and of any time. Had a brilliant run as a world champion and baffled some great fighters to tears and had some of the slickest shoulder rolling, ducking/weaving and sliding you are likely to see in that era. Was a fine defensive practitioner. The vid is not a defense HL at all, but just a HL of this fight and while it was not his best performance either it shows you what he was capable of. Very crafty.



Very good, and very forgotten for his skill. Was amazing in the corners and his ability to escape incredible. Thanks to Southpawjab for putting this up.

[BennyST]

I always thought that Jeff Fenech was underrated defensively, he could actually be very good defensively on the outside when he concentrated but his offense would wane as a result. On the inside he was very adept at slipping and blocking punches and he was hard to really hit with a clean punch. Not a defensive wizard by any stretch of the imagination but for a guy with a four corners offense he was better than one would think.

True. I agree with this a lot. The greatest pressure fighters often had underrated skill in general and were actually better than most classic boxers defensively. They just had to fight like wildmen because of their nature etc. Fenech though had very good head, upper-body movement and was pretty slick on the inside.

Often people look at the counter punchers but forget how much harder it is to be defensively sound while on the attack. The reason guys that are counter punchers and focus on defense are considered the best is because it's what they focused on mostly. It is much easier to lay back and wait and be defensive, waiting for openings the whole fight than it is to create openings with offense and defense attack and still be hard to catch.

Just look at someone like Whitaker for example. Amazing defense when he was focusing on it but when he got offensive he was hit often and dropped often too. Same with Mayweather. In his more brawl-like fights he got hit as much as most, though he was still brilliant at not getting caught cleanly.

The offensive guys that were great defensively I think I have the most admiration for and I consider that the highest form of defense. Just sticking to defense without looking to use it for your offense is not nearly as difficult as using your defense to make attacking opportunities or to be right on the inside or outside, and firing your shots with a mind for offense and yet still being defensively sound. Now that's skill.

[BennyST]

Cotto.....

[BennyST]

That's good but it still isn't defence, he is still getting hit.

I agree Jake was better technically than a lot say, he was smarter than he got credit for, but he was still a pretty open target most of the time.

Umm, rolling with punches is one of the most skillful and hard to perfect defensive skills. Few fighters still do it because it is so damn hard. It took great skill to be able to roll with punches well and is an amazing defensive skill because it allows you to be in perfect range, balance to counter and leaves the opponent completely open to your shots.

Toney and Duran were both truly brilliant at this. It is defense at it's highest.

I mean, if that's not defense, what is?

Moving away? No. Defense is being able to take off the brunt of a punch by blocking, parrying, or rolling etc or to make them miss completely by slipping, ducking, weaving etc.

Mayweather's defense is based on rolling with shots and there is no one that wouldn't call that brilliant defense. He still gets hit, but rolls with it so it does nothing.

[GJC]

Umm, rolling with punches is one of the most skillful and hard to perfect defensive skills. Few fighters still do it because it is so damn hard. It took great skill to be able to roll with punches well and is an amazing defensive skill because it allows you to be in perfect range, balance to counter and leaves the opponent completely open to your shots.

Toney and Duran were both truly brilliant at this. It is defense at it's highest.

I mean, if that's not defense, what is?

Moving away? No. Defense is being able to take off the brunt of a punch by blocking, parrying, or rolling etc or to make them miss completely by slipping, ducking, weaving etc.

Totally agree, good post. I loved the fact that Duran at his best, stayed in the eye of the storm so to speak, took very little of the other guys blow and was in range to attack.

[frankenfrank]

Chris Byrd
Orlin Norris
Montell Griffin
Malon Starling
Ike Quartery
Muhammad Qawi (if can be called defensive)
Dominick Guinn
Sultan Ibragimov

[oldgringo]

True. I agree with this a lot. The greatest pressure fighters often had underrated skill in general and were actually better than most classic boxers defensively. They just had to fight like wildmen because of their nature etc. Fenech though had very good head, upper-body movement and was pretty slick on the inside.

Often people look at the counter punchers but forget how much harder it is to be defensively sound while on the attack. The reason guys that are counter punchers and focus on defense are considered the best is because it's what they focused on mostly. It is much easier to lay back and wait and be defensive, waiting for openings the whole fight than it is to create openings with offense and defense attack and still be hard to catch.

Just look at someone like Whitaker for example. Amazing defense when he was focusing on it but when he got offensive he was hit often and dropped often too. Same with Mayweather. In his more brawl-like fights he got hit as much as most, though he was still brilliant at not getting caught cleanly.

The offensive guys that were great defensively I think I have the most admiration for and I consider that the highest form of defense. Just sticking to defense without looking to use it for your offense is not nearly as difficult as using your defense to make attacking opportunities or to be right on the inside or outside, and firing your shots with a mind for offense and yet still being defensively sound. Now that's skill.

Whitaker was often the guy using his defense to look for offense though. I think he could go it both ways, as he often did against opponents at higher weights. Just look at the way he fought Harold Brazier, Buddy McGirt, Jake Rodriguez, JC Vazquez, etc. He was impressive because he was fighting at mid-range or in close, throwing punches in combination while slipping, blocking or dodging return fire completely. I don't Whitaker was a defend first, wait for safety, attack later fighter at all.

As Mayweather has moved up his punch output, overall, has dropped significantly. He is weary of taking shots from bigger guys and rightfully so. His philosophy is hit and don't get hit in the simplest form. Whitaker had the same philosophy, but he did it with a certain flair and didn't sacrifice his own offense (and relative action in the fight) to get that accomplished.

I think you saw most of his lapses, he certainly had them, when he got overconfident and started doggin it a little. I don't think he was an open book when attacking his opponents. Whitaker was as crafty as anyone inside and was a master of making his way inside, winning the positioning battle and letting his hands go while avoiding punches in return.

The only time I saw him get tagged at an alarming rate while attacking was in the Hurtado fight. We all know he was slipping hard by that time anyway, but Hurtado was able to land those long right hands as Pernell waded in and, quite frankly, foolishly followed him around. I don't think Pernell had much respect for Dio.

[BennyST]

Whitaker was often the guy using his defense to look for offense though. I think he could go it both ways, as he often did against opponents at higher weights. Just look at the way he fought Harold Brazier, Buddy McGirt, Jake Rodriguez, JC Vazquez, etc. He was impressive because he was fighting at mid-range or in close, throwing punches in combination while slipping, blocking or dodging return fire completely. I don't Whitaker was a defend first, wait for safety, attack later fighter at all.

As Mayweather has moved up his punch output, overall, has dropped significantly. He is weary of taking shots from bigger guys and rightfully so. His philosophy is hit and don't get hit in the simplest form. Whitaker had the same philosophy, but he did it with a certain flair and didn't sacrifice his own offense (and relative action in the fight) to get that accomplished.

I think you saw most of his lapses, he certainly had them, when he got overconfident and started doggin it a little. I don't think he was an open book when attacking his opponents. Whitaker was as crafty as anyone inside and was a master of making his way inside, winning the positioning battle and letting his hands go while avoiding punches in return.

The only time I saw him get tagged at an alarming rate while attacking was in the Hurtado fight. We all know he was slipping hard by that time anyway, but Hurtado was able to land those long right hands as Pernell waded in and, quite frankly, foolishly followed him around. I don't think Pernell had much respect for Dio.

Nope. You're right. He was one of the guys that came to mind in a general sense you know? Ie. He had that pure defensive mode, which was his version of clowning, playing to the crowd etc, than anything and his fighting/defensive mode and then his brawling mode too.

Great post.

[Suckmedry]

Umm, rolling with punches is one of the most skillful and hard to perfect defensive skills. Few fighters still do it because it is so damn hard. It took great skill to be able to roll with punches well and is an amazing defensive skill because it allows you to be in perfect range, balance to counter and leaves the opponent completely open to your shots.

Toney and Duran were both truly brilliant at this. It is defense at it's highest.

I mean, if that's not defense, what is?

Moving away? No. Defense is being able to take off the brunt of a punch by blocking, parrying, or rolling etc or to make them miss completely by slipping, ducking, weaving etc.

Mayweather's defense is based on rolling with shots and there is no one that wouldn't call that brilliant defense. He still gets hit, but rolls with it so it does nothing.

I'm not talking about rolling with punches off your shoulders or arms, I'm talking about getting hit in the face and rolling with it to lessen the impact.

[mhager91490]

Harold Brazier and Ayub Kalule are two fighters who are were very adept defensively, though not neccesarily underrated bot moreso overlooked. Brazier was a master of the shell and Kalule was excellent in slipping and blocking punches.