Joe Gasn vs Floyd Mayweather Jr at 135- In two fights

[Suckmedry]

Depends how good your sparring partners are and how intense the sparring is. Definitely learned more in some of my sparring sessions as opposed to competing against a few guys.

Competition adds a different kind of learning imo. Seems like you've got all the time to think in the world when you're sparring. No time to think when it's the real thing.

One is like reading music (which is not necessarily an easy thing to do, depending on the piece). The other is improvisation. You read the music a bunch of times in the past, you pretty much have it remembered, but whatever you forget you just wing and make the best of it.

Yeah that's true the quality of the fight and the sparring is a factor too.

But you are right the strength of competition is that you need to think on your feet a lot and are put in some tough situations.

[wmute]

No, just straight up.

I just think Floyd would be too fast, strong and explosive for a guy like Gans, he wouldn't have seen anything like Floyd before and Floyd would have busted him up under any rules.

Of course Floyd has never seen anything like Gans before either. Don't write off the old-timers




Push comes to shove I think it would be easier for Gans to adapt to today's rules than it would be for Floyd to adapt to early 20th century rules.

Poet

The main difference in preparing for fights is not really the training in itself. It's rather the fact that the oldtimes fought all the time so they where always in fighting shape. In fact I would say that they where in better shape on the average than fighters of today. So basically I don't really put much emphasis in so-called modern training.

What we are dealing with is Mayweather fighting at 135 ringside in a 20 round fight with 4 oz horsehair gloves and lots of rough stuff being allowed. 40 rounds as mentioned by the TS wasn't really the norm when Gans was champ but rather 20 or 25.

How well would he do in such conditions? How well will he fight if his hand is broken in say the fifth round with 15 rounds to go? We know that Gans fought several times with broken bones. For example in his famed title winning effort over Nelson he fought 42 rounds despite breaking a hand early in the fight. So we know what Gans is made of. I would say the chances of a Gans win under the old-school format is about 80% at least.

As for a fight under todays rules I would think, as poet indicated as well, that Gans would adapt pretty well. He was a slick technician who could throw every punch in the book and defensively he was the best fighter p4p at the time.They didn't call him the old master for nothing and he might even benefit from stricter refereeing.

When he first won the title he had some 120 wins and only a handful of losses including a suspect loss to ATG Terry McGovern and a loss to ATG Sam Langford.

The abilities and accomplishments that Gans has permits me from giving Floyd more than a 50% chance of winning a 12 rounder. If I have to pick I take Gans.

Oh my oh my. Even while disagreeing, you ppl are a missing a humongous point. They did not train for the same sport.

Take the best marathon runner make him run a 10k against the 100th best 10k runner, he loses. Take the best 10k runner and make him run a marathon with the 100th best marathon runner, he loses. Why? Because the guy practicing the new discipline, does not know how his body will feel when it is pushed to that particular limit. We are talking about pros.


Moreover, we are talking about fighters famous for their accuracy and understanding of their science. Keyword their. If you imagine that you take Floyd and put 4oz on him for the first time and he looks even remotely as smooth as he does with anything 8-16oz, you guys are off. Same for Gans with 8-10oz gloves. It's hard too picture how bad both fighters would look, but they would look bad. All the moves they had perfected in 1000s of rounds of sparring and drills, would all of a sudden be a bit off, and as smart as they are they could not do anything about it. Why? basically muscle memory... their whole body, not just their brain has been trained to do those movements, no changing that in a couple of rounds during a fight!

Then if we want to talk about who can become the better fighter under the other rules while training for them, it's a different story. This is something we can talk about. My take:

While counter right points are legit, he is forgetting something. Floyd's hands. That alone gives a much better chance to Gans under the new rules, than Floyd has under the old ones.

[Obama]

Oh my oh my. Even while disagreeing, you ppl are a missing a humongous point. They did not train for the same sport.

Take the best marathon runner make him run a 10k against the 100th best 10k runner, he loses. Take the best 10k runner and make him run a marathon with the 100th best marathon runner, he loses. Why? Because the guy practicing the new discipline, does not know how his body will feel when it is pushed to that particular limit. We are talking about pros.


Moreover, we are talking about fighters famous for their accuracy and understanding of their science. Keyword their. If you imagine that you take Floyd and put 4oz on him for the first time and he looks even remotely as smooth as he does with anything 8-16oz, you guys are off. Same for Gans with 8-10oz gloves. It's hard too picture how bad both fighters would look, but they would look bad. All the moves they had perfected in 1000s of rounds of sparring and drills, would all of a sudden be a bit off, and as smart as they are they could not do anything about it. Why? basically muscle memory... their whole body, not just their brain has been trained to do those movements, no changing that in a couple of rounds during a fight!

Then if we want to talk about who can become the better fighter under the other rules while training for them, it's a different story. This is something we can talk about. My take:

While counter right points are legit, he is forgetting something. Floyd's hands. That alone gives a much better chance to Gans under the new rules, than Floyd has under the old ones.

Too extreme. It's not 6.25 miles compared to 26. It's 6.25 compared to 11. So best vs 100th best = loss would be a stretch.

[Suckmedry]

Oh my oh my. Even while disagreeing, you ppl are a missing a humongous point. They did not train for the same sport.

Take the best marathon runner make him run a 10k against the 100th best 10k runner, he loses. Take the best 10k runner and make him run a marathon with the 100th best marathon runner, he loses. Why? Because the guy practicing the new discipline, does not know how his body will feel when it is pushed to that particular limit. We are talking about pros.


Moreover, we are talking about fighters famous for their accuracy and understanding of their science. Keyword their. If you imagine that you take Floyd and put 4oz on him for the first time and he looks even remotely as smooth as he does with anything 8-16oz, you guys are off. Same for Gans with 8-10oz gloves. It's hard too picture how bad both fighters would look, but they would look bad. All the moves they had perfected in 1000s of rounds of sparring and drills, would all of a sudden be a bit off, and as smart as they are they could not do anything about it. Why? basically muscle memory... their whole body, not just their brain has been trained to do those movements, no changing that in a couple of rounds during a fight!

Then if we want to talk about who can become the better fighter under the other rules while training for them, it's a different story. This is something we can talk about. My take:

While counter right points are legit, he is forgetting something. Floyd's hands. That alone gives a much better chance to Gans under the new rules, than Floyd has under the old ones.

That is a pretty good point.

[Jim Jeffries]

Can someone explain the difference to me between the third and fourth options?

[Suckmedry]

Gans had 150 odd fights so that was a lot of his training
It is difficult to compare these things it's a bit like trying to compare who out of a 200 metre runner and a marathon runner would win a mile race.

True, Gans has the experience advantage in professional competition, but Floyd had a 90 fight amateur career, much of it at a high level, so that evens the score up somewhat. (I don't think there was an extensive amateur program in Gan's youth)

You are right there, but I just think Floyd would take Gans out relatively early. Just way faster and more explosive than anything Gans had ever seen, and Gans would be fighting his equal skillwise.

[Suckmedry]

Can someone explain the difference to me between the third and fourth options?

What do you mean?

Floyd wins under his rules (modern day rules) but loses in an old school fight (Gans' rules)

Gans' wins under his old school rules, but loses under Floyd's modern rules

[Jim Jeffries]

What do you mean?

Floyd wins under his rules (modern day rules) but loses in an old school fight (Gans' rules)

Gans' wins under his old school rules, but loses under Floyd's modern rules

And you don't get that those are the same thing?:thinking1:

[Suckmedry]

And you don't get that those are the same thing?:thinking1:

How are they the same thing?

EDIT: wait sorry lol, yeah you are right, not at my sharpest today

[BattlingNelson]

Do you even train or fight as a boxer? What would you know about the benefits of different types of training?

I have trained first off in a very old school style when I began fighting, lots of long, long roadwork, very old school defensive techniques like the cross arm defence, flat footed shuffling footwork, very slow paced fighting, lots of in close fighting, long periods just hitting the heavybag at a slow pace etc

(eg: how they trained 100 years ago)

And guess what? I got iced by dudes that trained in the new school, lots of sprint training, intense, short rounds on the bag, better schooled technique, faster footwork, etc (eg: how they train nowadays)

Some aspects of old school technique are good, if you combine it with modern day conditioning like a guy like Toney does, but training exclusively old school does not cut it against a well trained modern fighter....

And guess what happened when I started training in the modern school? Yeah that's right, I went on a winning streak and won some titles.

It's on a much smaller scale than guys like Gans and Floyd, but it still applies.

As I said a lot of the old school training consisted of actual fighting. I'm sure that bit wasn't part in your old school drills.