Who do you Regard as the second Greatest fighter to retire undefeated?

[Obama]

Lopez > Marciano >>> Calzaghe

Wouldn't even be out of the question to rate some other undefeated fighters over Calzaghe, such as Jack McAuliffe. It's not like Calzaghe has a better win than a prime, undefeated Young Griffo. It's not like Calzaghe was undisputed champ for 6 years either.

You know what, yea. Let's redo this:

Lopez > Marciano > McAuliffe > Calzaghe

Calzaghe's name belongs along side the other elite undefeated fighters who never took the challenges required to define greatness, men such as Ike Ibeabuchi and Harry Simon.

Only problem is Ibeabuchi and Simon have good excuses, what's Clazaghe's?

[TheGreatA]

Jack McAuliffe could be the greatest fighter there's very little knowledge of. Some of his opponents, who have modest records at best on BoxRec, were considered among the top fighters of the time. No one ever beat him although he did have some controversial wins, much like Calzaghe against Hopkins, Marciano against LaStarza and so on.

The only film that exists of him are his boxing exhibitions with the likes of Carpentier, Dempsey while he was over 50 years old.

[mickey malone]

Lopez > Marciano >>> Calzaghe

Wouldn't even be out of the question to rate some other undefeated fighters over Calzaghe, such as Jack McAuliffe. It's not like Calzaghe has a better win than a prime, undefeated Young Griffo. It's not like Calzaghe was undisputed champ for 6 years either.

You know what, yea. Let's redo this:

Lopez > Marciano > McAuliffe > Calzaghe

Calzaghe's name belongs along side the other elite undefeated fighters who never took the challenges required to define greatness, men such as Ike Ibeabuchi and Harry Simon.

Only problem is Ibeabuchi and Simon have good excuses, what's Clazaghe's?

Here's some excuses

RJJ's preference to go in search of multiple world titles, instead of the job in hand, which was to fight Calzaghe.. Joe did request it..

B/Hop's preference to break the world record for MW title defenses with a string of inferior opponents..
Despite requesting the fight, Joe was deemed to much of a risk, and finding it harder to make MW, moved up to the SMW division.. Bernard then went on to achieve his goal without any interference from Calzaghe: well not until it became financially convenient to fight him anyway..

Two broken hands.. Hence the slapping style, that wasn't evident during his early career, but became more prominent as his hands suffered more and more breaks..
This is something a lot of people don't take into account, the hand problems held him back considerably, and ultimately signalled the end of his career..

When you compare these excuses to terrorizing your neighbourhood or mowing people down in your car, they're quite acceptable really..

[Obama]

Here's some excuses

RJJ's preference to go in search of multiple world titles, instead of the job in hand, which was to fight Calzaghe.. Joe did request it..

B/Hop's preference to break the world record for MW title defenses with a string of inferior opponents..
Despite requesting the fight, Joe was deemed to much of a risk, and finding it harder to make MW, moved up to the SMW division.. Bernard then went on to achieve his goal without any interference from Calzaghe: well not until it became financially convenient to fight him anyway..

Two broken hands.. Hence the slapping style, that wasn't evident during his early career, but became more prominent as his hands suffered more and more breaks..
This is something a lot of people don't take into account, the hand problems held him back considerably, and ultimately signalled the end of his career..

When you compare these excuses to terrorizing your neighbourhood or mowing people down in your car, they're quite acceptable really..

RJJ and Bernard Hopkins never had any reason to take his challenges seriously when he asked for them while they were still prime. Calzaghe had done jack **** at the time. It was pre-Lacy ffs, Calzaghe was NOBODY then. The man wasted his career in the SMW division fighting cans. There were European fighters to fight at both SMW and LHW which would have given him a name, there were ranked American fighters willing to fight him that would have also given him a name. But Calzaghe didn't want to fight in America. Calzaghe simply didn't feel like he needed to establish himself. He thought he could fight bums in his backyard, then get all the great fighters to come to him. The man quite frankly was not too bright.

Of all the people who people dare to label great, Joe Calzaghe has the worst resume of them all. No excuse is good enough for that.

[Suckmedry]

RJJ and Bernard Hopkins never had any reason to take his challenges seriously when he asked for them while they were still prime. Calzaghe had done jack **** at the time. It was pre-Lacy ffs, Calzaghe was NOBODY then. The man wasted his career in the SMW division fighting cans. There were European fighters to fight at both SMW and LHW which would have given him a name, there were ranked American fighters willing to fight him that would have also given him a name. But Calzaghe didn't want to fight in America. Calzaghe simply didn't feel like he needed to establish himself. He thought he could fight bums in his backyard, then get all the great fighters to come to him. The man quite frankly was not too bright.

Of all the people who people dare to label great, Joe Calzaghe has the worst resume of them all. No excuse is good enough for that.

Calzaghe was never my cup of tea so to speak but he was a pretty good fighter, his main assets were his awkwardness, workrate and versatility. What you said about him was very true. He wasted so much time fighting those lower calibre guys. It doesn't necessarily matter that he fought them in the UK, if he could have brought the top guys out to the UK then fine, but you have to go to those guys when you are nobody, they don't come to you. So Joe was more than happy to waste his career doing that.

What annoys me most is when people talk about how Joe was even better before his hand problems settled in etc Well he should have been chasing the best in the US at the time and not ****ing around in the UK fighting scrubs! If he had gone after the best before his hands got really bad he could have built a better legacy for himself and we could have seen more of him.

[mickey malone]

RJJ and Bernard Hopkins never had any reason to take his challenges seriously when he asked for them while they were still prime. Calzaghe had done jack **** at the time. It was pre-Lacy ffs, Calzaghe was NOBODY then. The man wasted his career in the SMW division fighting cans. There were European fighters to fight at both SMW and LHW which would have given him a name, there were ranked American fighters willing to fight him that would have also given him a name. But Calzaghe didn't want to fight in America. Calzaghe simply didn't feel like he needed to establish himself. He thought he could fight bums in his backyard, then get all the great fighters to come to him. The man quite frankly was not too bright.

Of all the people who people dare to label great, Joe Calzaghe has the worst resume of them all. No excuse is good enough for that.

Let's just say they had their reasons not to give him the opportunity, so he beat them when he could..
Have to agree with the way he mis-managed himself though.. Didn't do himself any favours by having most of his fights in the UK, but i don't think his resume is quite as bad as you think..

Chris Eubank - 2 weight world champ, decked and beaten
Juan Carlos Gimenez - Tough contender, stopped for the 1st time with broken ribs
Robin Reid - WBC champ, close call, but Joe still wins with a broken hand
Omar Sheika - Highly regarded contender, badly beaten and stopped
Richie Woodhall - WBC champ, outboxed stopped inside the distance
Mario Veit - European Champ, KO'd twice in 1 & 6 rounds respectively
Charles Brewer - IBF champ, bloodied & soundly outpointed
Byron Mitchell - WBA champ, KD's Joe then gets KO'd himself
Jeff Lacy - Highly rated IBF champ, beaten to a pulp in his prime
Sakio Bika - Still a dangerous contender today, easilly handled over 12 rounds
Mikkel Kessler - Multiple belt world champ, outfought & beaten 4 the 1st time

If you could add a prime Hopkins, Jones and Sven Ottke, then his resume would be sparkling, but the fact he was 35+ when he defeated RJJ & HOP almost evens it out..
As for Ottke, he was even less reluctant to travel than Calzaghe, having every single one of his fights in Germany.. When it comes to crap resumes and avoiding the best, I'd point the finger at Sven, not Joe..

[sonnyboyx2]

Ike Ibeabuchi

[sonnyboyx2]

Let's just say they had their reasons not to give him the opportunity, so he beat them when he could..
Have to agree with the way he mis-managed himself though.. Didn't do himself any favours by having most of his fights in the UK, but i don't think his resume is quite as bad as you think..

Chris Eubank - 2 weight world champ, decked and beaten
Juan Carlos Gimenez - Tough contender, stopped for the 1st time with broken ribs
Robin Reid - WBC champ, close call, but Joe still wins with a broken hand
Omar Sheika - Highly regarded contender, badly beaten and stopped
Richie Woodhall - WBC champ, outboxed stopped inside the distance
Mario Veit - European Champ, KO'd twice in 1 & 6 rounds respectively
Charles Brewer - IBF champ, bloodied & soundly outpointed
Byron Mitchell - WBA champ, KD's Joe then gets KO'd himself
Jeff Lacy - Highly rated IBF champ, beaten to a pulp in his prime
Sakio Bika - Still a dangerous contender today, easilly handled over 12 rounds
Mikkel Kessler - Multiple belt world champ, outfought & beaten 4 the 1st time

If you could add a prime Hopkins, Jones and Sven Ottke, then his resume would be sparkling, but the fact he was 35+ when he defeated RJJ & HOP almost evens it out..
As for Ottke, he was even less reluctant to travel than Calzaghe, having every single one of his fights in Germany.. When it comes to crap resumes and avoiding the best, I'd point the finger at Sven, not Joe..

You have made a strong case there for a bunch of class C tomato cans, to claim they was anything better is simply not true

[mickey malone]

You have made a strong case there for a bunch of class C tomato cans, to claim they was anything better is simply not true

How can you label 7 world champions as class C tomato cans, and then use the phrase 'simply not true' in the same sentence?

[TheGreatA]

I do think that Calzaghe had a bit of a "slapping" style even when his hands were still good. I also think that the Calzaghe of 2006-2007 was probably better than the Calzaghe of 10 years prior. The Kessler and Lacy fights go down as his best performances for me.