Who Are The Ten Greatest Fighters Never To Hold A World Title?

[Obama]

More good names there, Young Stribling for sure deserves to be top 10.
To my mind, Sam Langford, Charley Burley, Jimmy Bivins, Young Stribling and Packy McFarland are nailed on top ten then its take your pick.

I will obviously put forward Joe Baksi after the initial rush

Let us not forget that Blackburn beat Langford. Something I wrote on Blackburn a while back:

Jack Blackburn was one of the greatest Lightweights to never win a world title. Strike that, Jack Blackburn was one of the greatest Lightweights period. It's not like he ever got a shot at the World Title either. Then again, the Champion was Joe Gans after all... Anyways, for all his in ring accomplishments, he actually did not make the hall of fame for his own boxing career. Rather, he made the hall of fame for the career of the great Joe Louis, whom he trained. Nonetheless, this cannot be considered a blemish on his resume considering men such as Lloyd Marshall also evade the hall of fame (no longer true, thankfully). Sometimes justice simply isn't served. Such was the case with many great Philadelphia fighters, of which Blackburn is certainly considered one of the very best.

Blackburn, while born out of Versailles, KY, spent his boxing career fighting out of Philadelphia, PA. He amassed an impressive official record of 37 – 8 – 7, with six of the eight losses coming after getting out of prison (more on that later). The two official losses he sustained in his youth came at the hands of the top ten caliber all time greats Joe Gans and Sam Langford. Prior to the Langford loss, Blackburn unofficially defeated and drew with Langford, who was considerably larger than Blackburn.

Also unofficially, Blackburn had an additional record of 65 – 17 – 11 (newspaper decisions). Twelve of the seventeen losses, once again, came after Blackburn left prison (after doing a five and a half year stint no less). Of the men who unofficially beat Blackburn in his youth include Philadelphia Jack O'Brien (natural Middleweight, top twenty all time great material), George Gunther (lost to Blackburn six times, two of them official), Joe Gans (possibly the greatest Lightweight of all time), George Cole (one of the forgotten Philadelphian elites who beat top fighters from Welterweight to Heavyweight), and Dave Holly (yet another great Philadelphia fighter who beat Langford and Joe Walcott in addition to Blackburn).

Of all the people who beat a non-faded Blackburn, unofficially and officially, only Gans beat him more than once. And only Gans and O'Brien managed to do it without losing. As mentioned previously, Blackburn beat Gunther six times. He also beat Holly three times and Cole twice. Other notable victories he achieved include Jimmy Gardner (Welterweight), Charley Hitte (Welterweight), Cy Flynn (Lightweight), Jack Williams (Middleweight), Herman Miller (Lightweight), Fred Bradley (Heavyweight), Jim Barry (Middleweight, who would go on to beat top Heavyweights), Harry Lewis (hall of fame Welterweight), Mike Donovan (Middleweight), Terry Martin (Welterweight), Tony Caponi (Middleweight), Tommy Howell (Welterweight), and Harry Mansfield (Lightweight).

Mansfield was Blackburn's last fight before prison. On January 12th, 1909, Blackburn's went on a shooting spree in Philadelphia (something not uncommon in the Philadelphia of today). During this fit of rage he killed three people, including his own wife. He was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to ten to fifteen years in prison. He managed to get out early on good behavior by giving boxing lessons to the warden and his children. But by the time he did get out of prison he was no longer the same fighter. But considering the man had already beaten credible opposition from Lightweight to Heavyweight, two hall of famers included (Langford & Lewis), it's pretty safe to say his legacy was intact before hand. A legacy he built in only 6 years...

[GJC]

Nice post ***** and you put the case for Blackburn very well. From my point of view I didn't include Blackburn in my "nailed on" top 5 simply because as you say the Gans factor. He is one of those unfortunate fighters who just happened to be around at the same time as a stone cold ATG and I can always see Gans in front of him, similar to Tendling and Benny Leonard. Obviously the jail sentence did him few favours.
Like I say to my mind definate top ten material but I favour the others because I believe with certainty that they would have won a world title had they have been given their shot whereas some I believe were unlucky with the era they fought in.

[Obama]

Nice post ***** and you put the case for Blackburn very well. From my point of view I didn't include Blackburn in my "nailed on" top 5 simply because as you say the Gans factor. He is one of those unfortunate fighters who just happened to be around at the same time as a stone cold ATG and I can always see Gans in front of him, similar to Tendling and Benny Leonard. Obviously the jail sentence did him few favours.
Like I say to my mind definate top ten material but I favour the others because I believe with certainty that they would have won a world title had they have been given their shot whereas some I believe were unlucky with the era they fought in.

Your list included Jimmy Bivins. You must mean title shot at Light Heavyweight, because he most certainly was not a sure thing to beat Louis.

Still, can't really justify rating Bivins over Blackburn. Bivins was bigger than all the best people he beat.

[GJC]

Your list included Jimmy Bivins. You must mean title shot at Light Heavyweight, because he most certainly was not a sure thing to beat Louis.

Still, can't really justify rating Bivins over Blackburn. Bivins was bigger than all the best people he beat.

Just a matter that I am certain that Bivvins would have beaten Lesnevich in that golden year he had, not so sure that I could favour Blackburn over Gans. I'm probably looking at this in a different way, certainly not disrespecting how great Blackburn was. If you grasp my thinking that is, I will admit to taking an unusual slant on things at times, you'll have to put it down to age and humour me

[Obama]

Just a matter that I am certain that Bivvins would have beaten Lesnevich in that golden year he had, not so sure that I could favour Blackburn over Gans. I'm probably looking at this in a different way, certainly not disrespecting how great Blackburn was. If you grasp my thinking that is, I will admit to taking an unusual slant on things at times, you'll have to put it down to age and humour me

You seem to be placing more weight on ability to win a title rather than ability period. I see no relevance in doing that. Gans is arguably the greatest Lightweight ever. Lesnevich couldn't make a respectable top 40 LHW list. He's not in the HOF and it's doubtful he ever will be.

Beating Gans would be faaaaaaar more impressive.

Anyways, Blackburn beat people that beat Gans.

[HaglerSteelChin]

You guys know your boxing to remember Young Stribling- he died in the hospital where his wife was as i read his story when i went through names of guys in the Old Timers IBHOF. I thought Packey Mcfarland was among the best who didnt hold a world title. But i am not sure if he is top 10?

Two other names that i think weren't mentioned were Kid Norfolk and Pedro Montanez. Norfolk had wins over Greb, Flowers, and Jamaica kid. Pedro montanez is easily the best PR fighter not to hold a title. He beat guys like Frankie Click, Wesley Ramey, and Jack "Kid" Berg, but always felt short due to his losses to Henry Armstrong and Lou Ambers.

[ILLuminato]

Howard Davis Jr. because he's from my hometown. He was a total BEAST as an amateur but coudln't make it to the world title level.

[GJC]

Howard Davis Jr. because he's from my hometown. He was a total BEAST as an amateur but coudln't make it to the world title level.

Problem with putting Howard Davis in was he got well beat by Jim Watt and I would struggle to put Watt above a good solid fighter as opposed to a great champion. *****'s man Blackburn would have slaughtered Watt.

[Southpaw16BF]

No mention of Holman Williams, Eddie Booker, Jack Chase or Willie Joyce yet.

All great fighters who beat fellow ATG fighters, and all were worthy of title belts!

[GJC]

You guys know your boxing to remember Young Stribling- he died in the hospital where his wife was as i read his story when i went through names of guys in the Old Timers IBHOF. I thought Packey Mcfarland was among the best who didnt hold a world title. But i am not sure if he is top 10?

Two other names that i think weren't mentioned were Kid Norfolk and Pedro Montanez. Norfolk had wins over Greb, Flowers, and Jamaica kid. Pedro montanez is easily the best PR fighter not to hold a title. He beat guys like Frankie Click, Wesley Ramey, and Jack "Kid" Berg, but always felt short due to his losses to Henry Armstrong and Lou Ambers.

Kid Norfolk is a good pick for sure any man who can take an eye from Greb must have something!
Re Packy, even Battles on here admits Battling Nelson ducked him, no easy admission from him and one that does him credit.
Packy had 100 odd fights and lost one newpaper decision in his first year as pro?
Just very unlucky to be a light welter before there was such a thing!