Evaluate George Foreman's Legacy Pre-First Retirement

[Heru]

Frazier and Norton were tailor made to lose to him.

Are you deducting points for this?

Foreman's second career bumped him up some 5-10 spots.

[Obama]

Are you deducting points for this?

Foreman's second career bumped him up some 5-10 spots.

Nah, not deducting, just not adding extra. If the man beat Larry Holmes in the late 70s I'd rate him top 5. But he wanted nothing to do with classical boxers, thus he never beat an impressive one until his miracle KO of Michael Moore in the mid 90s.

[StarshipTrooper]

Foreman was considered a monster -- but then so was Sonny Liston and Liston barely makes anyone's top 10.

I happen to rank Liston #6 all-time at Heavyweight.

If Foreman is a top 10 who among the following does he displace?

Jim Jeffries - Yes
Jack Johnson - No
Jack Dempsey - No
Gene Tunney - A Light-Heavyweight who shouldn't be ranked as a Heavy.
Joe Louis - No
Jersey Joe Walcott - Yes
Ezzard Charles - The best at Light-Heavy so shouldn't be ranked a Heavy.
Marciano - Yes
Floyd Patterson - Yes
Sonny Liston - No
Muhammad Ali - No
Joe Frazier - Yes
Larry Holmes - No
Mike Tyson - Yes
Evander Holyfield - Tossup
Lennox Lewis - Yes

Poet

[sonnyboyx2]

You can't compare a prime Foreman losing to a faded Ali to the other great faded fighters losing to prime opponents.

And he didn't destroy Chuvalo. What fight did you watch? On Chuvalo's standards, the fight barely got started by the time it was stopped. Chuvalo was much, much, much more durable and resilient than the ref gave him credit for. He also didn't destroy Peralta the first time, he barely won the damn fight in reality.

Anyways, we don't base ATG lists on picking 10 guys who'd beat a prime fighter based off speculation. If we did, Roy Jones and Mike Tyson would be top 20 p4p fighters.

However, considering what Jimmy Young did to Foreman, I think the list of guys that beat him could well approach 10.

you ask which fight i watched?.. i watched Foreman destroy Chuvalo, lifting him virtually off his feet and blungening him around the ring, Chuvalo was only seconds off going down when he turned away from the action looking for Hall of Fame referee Arthur Mercante to stop the fight..

Muhammad Ali was `Not faded`when he beat Foreman in Zaire, he was in incredible physical condition.

Jimmy Young edged a very debatable decision win over Foreman, Young never put Foreman on the canvas as many seem to believe, Foreman stumbled over Youngs feet and brushed his right glove on the canvas which is ruled a knock down and gave Young the decision, IMO Foreman won that fight 9-3rds

Foreman vs Lyle.... Lyle was a `monster`who if fighting today would have been the undisputed champion for the last 10yrs.

[sonnyboyx2]

Nah, not deducting, just not adding extra. If the man beat Larry Holmes in the late 70s I'd rate him top 5. But he wanted nothing to do with classical boxers, thus he never beat an impressive one until his miracle KO of Michael Moore in the mid 90s.

you could not be more incorrect... Foreman would have destroyed Larry Holmes in the late 70s within a couple of rounds... Holmes was thought of as `nothing special`and a fighter with a weak chin after his fights with Ibar Arrington and Roy Williams.. Holmes was never in a position to fight Foreman..Foremans victories over Frazier & Norton were breathtaking with Norton being a great boxer who only lost by debatable split-decision to Holmes when at the very tail-end of his career.

[TBear]

I voted yes but barely. He was the first to ever beat smoking Joe and to lose the Greatest was not as shameful as George probably felt on that day in Zaire. But he was almost unbeatable. Remember, Ali could not box him, he could not move around because George cut him off, he only cover up and George beat himself by throwing everything he had. But tough guys like Chuvalo and Frazier, they didn't stand a chance!

[sonnyboyx2]

Foreman was considered a monster -- but then so was Sonny Liston and Liston barely makes anyone's top 10.

If Foreman is a top 10 who among the following does he displace?

Jim Jeffries (maybe / yes)
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney (maybe)
Joe Louis
Jersey Joe Walcott (yes)
Ezzard Charles (yes)
Marciano (maybe) -- NOT TALKING ABOUT MATCH-UP
Floyd Patterson (maybe)
Sonny Liston (yes)
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier (yes) -- NOT TALKING ABOUT MATCH-UP
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield (maybe)
Lennox Lewis (maybe)

In my opinion Foreman was a border-line top 10 fighter based on his 1970s career.

The 1973 George Foreman would IMO

Foreman vs Tyson --- Foreman by KO2
Foreman vs Holyfield -Foreman by KO5
Foreman vs Lewis ----Foreman by KO2
Foreman vs Holmes --Foreman by KO4
Foreman vs Marciano - Foreman by KO4
Foreman vs Walcott --- Foreman by KO4
Foreman vs Jeffries ---- Foreman by KO3
Foreman vs Patterson -- Foreman by KO2

George may struggle with the others listed.. yet do not forget that George Foreman was the `Hardest puncher in Boxing history`

[StarshipTrooper]

yet do not forget that George Foreman was the `Hardest puncher in Boxing history`

Second hardest puncher. Earnie Shavers is the concensus pick for hardest puncher by boxing historians.

Poet

[sonnyboyx2]

Second hardest puncher. Earnie Shavers is the concensus pick for hardest puncher by boxing historians.

Poet

Thats OK its about opinion, but other than Norton who did Shavers ever knock out other than a bunch of tomato cans.

Foreman lifted 210lbs Frazier off the canvas with a punch

[bklynboy]

I happen to rank Liston #6 all-time at Heavyweight.





Jim Jeffries - Yes
Jack Johnson - No
Jack Dempsey - No
Gene Tunney - A Light-Heavyweight who shouldn't be ranked as a Heavy.
Joe Louis - No
Jersey Joe Walcott - Yes
Ezzard Charles - The best at Light-Heavy so shouldn't be ranked a Heavy.
Marciano - Yes
Floyd Patterson - Yes
Sonny Liston - No
Muhammad Ali - No
Joe Frazier - Yes
Larry Holmes - No
Mike Tyson - Yes
Evander Holyfield - Tossup
Lennox Lewis - Yes

Poet

I've never really liked making hard and fast top 10s. There's a whole lot of problem making them. The biggest problem I face are match-ups. I'm a believer in "styles makes fights." I think that Marciano would give Ali problems in the same way that Frazier gave Ali problems. But does that mean that Marciano was better than Ali. Hell No. So Marciano would be below Ali. I think that Foreman would always KO Frazier, but does that make him better? No. Frazier and Marciano (IMHO) would always give Louis and Ali problems, but Ali and Louis would beat the clubbing, wide-armed Foreman. I hate ranking fighters by match-ups. Too problematic and ultimately we'll never know.

I place Foreman as a top 10, but barely. In my mind Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali are definately better than George Foreman. They are -- in my opinion -- definately top 5 heavyweights.

But there are at least 5 or 6 other fighters -- if not more -- who are borderline top 10 heavyweights with Foreman. Jim Jeffries, Rocky Marciano, Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson and George Foreman are top 10 fighters. But a case can be made for Jersey Joe, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis.

I think Jersey Joe would beat Foreman -- but as said before I don't like judging TOP 10 lists by who would beat who.