The level of Lewis' opponents

[sonnyboyx2]

London, Dunn and Coopman would beat Tua and Vitali?


Didn't actually claim that but agree I wasn't too clear I meant that between championship fights Ali re-visited a few old average opponents before next championship bout.

Not in his 40's though which he was rapidly approaching if not in them according to some.

But you completely ignore rankings for Lewis's opponents?

And the date of the fight was? Patterson won the title when? Hard to prove he wasn't shot

A fighter who Ali cut to ribbons in the first fight and who always lost when stepping up in class. Like a list of European champions not given a world title shot?

2nd fight was pretty dull actually with a too fussy referee who nullified a lot of Frazier's work. Ali lost 1st one the other 2 were after Frazier had been slaughtered by Foreman and was never as good.

And was totally shot far more than Ruddock was against Lewis.

psst you'll often find that the underdog wins in fixed fights thats how they make their money! The shoulder injury that he showed abosulutely no effects of in the round before? Anyone who has followed boxing has heard rumours
or peoples opinions that both Liston fights were dodgy.

Well he put Ali on his backside but didn't follow up.

One of the first of the alphabet champions and one of the poorest.

Who once beat.........?

Who earned 1st shot by losing to Corletti

Was 36 when he fought Ali but congratulations you have found someone Brian London beat which is never easy.

And held Ali, probably as easy defences as Ali ever had Bugner just went in to survive

Well not for Shavers, Foreman or Cooney but he did beat Ali 3 times so you'd have to say he did ok.

Only based on him "beating" Ali and a mind****ed Foreman ever see him as a MW?

Covered that, he was drugged and Dundee cheated

Don't know, more than Mickey Ward's?

Ask GreatA for a long list of European champions who didn't get a shot as my internet is playing up.

GJC you have wrote this as if you have just came off the Boxrec website? ...... maybe i should use that site as a tool to assasinate the Lewis opponents.. here is a couple off the top of my head for starters :

Lionel Butler - 22-10-1 lost half his pro fights

Rahman - ranked No10 was poleaxed (unconscious 5 mins) only 3 fights earlier..yet bombs-out Lewis.

McCall - Journeyman/sparring partner who had lost 3 of his last 12 fights (2 against cruiserweights) yet poleaxes Lewis in less than 2rds.

Muhammad Ali was never KOd

Frazier vs Ali (2) forgotten classic

Patterson was far from shot in 1965 to suggest he was is untrue

Foreman - "Drugged"-- `laughable`

Norton - Lost fights 2 & 3

Bugner - How the hell do you fight Muhammad Ali and only go in to survive?

London vs Tua - IMO my money would be on London, i have many of Brian Londons fights and he is a tough cookie there is no doubt about that - i suggest you watch his fight with Patterson & Cooper (3) both classics.. Tua was a bum

[sonnyboyx2]

in all weight divisions of world boxing today.. Fighters protect their unbeaten record by never fighting the best or most dangerous fighters unlike how it was in the 50s 60s 70s.. eg: Michael Grant was undefeated when he fought Lennox Lewis yet his opponents records totalled more loses than wins...

Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier (1) was the first time 2 undefeated fighters fought for the heavyweight championship... yet today its almost every fight for the title they are undefeated.

[mickey malone]

I believe someone wanted a comparison between Lewis and Tyson..

World championship resume =

Lennox Lewis 19-2-1 (11 KO's + 1 DQ) (KO'd 2)

Mike Tyson 15-3-0 (10 KO's) (KO'd 2 + 1 DQ))

I think it's fair to say that Lewis will never measure up to Ali in greatness..
other posters have already highlighted that you can pick holes all day long in the opponents that both have faced, as well as any fighter who has laced on a pair of gloves..
What we need to emphasize here is, why are certain fighters discredited by minority individuals?
Ok, Ali has a better championship resume than Lewis, but when you compare it to Tyson's, I'd say Lennox edges it..

Berbick as opposed to Tucker
Smith as opposed to Aikinwande
Williams as opposed to Golota
Tubbs as opposed to Grant
Thomas as opposed to Briggs
Spinks as opposed to Morrison
Seldon as opposed to Mavrovic
Douglas as opposed to McCall
PP Holmes as opposed to PP Tyson

Where's the big gap in class here?

Both fighters have defeated various versions of Golota, Tucker, Botha, Ruddock & Bruno..
Lewis drew and won against Holyfield, where as Mike lost twice, and people laughably suggest, that was a past prime Holy, when he's still fighting for titles today!
Lewis also stopped a prime Vitaly when he was 38 years old, while at the same age, Tyson was getting KO'd by Kevin McBride..... Case Closed..

[mickey malone]

London vs Tua - IMO my money would be on London: sonnyboyx2

What a bloody stupid thing to say! lol upon lol upon lol upon lol!

[Silencers]

I'm an Ali fan but Tua would've knocked London out.

[sonnyboyx2]

London vs Tua - IMO my money would be on London: sonnyboyx2

What a bloody stupid thing to say! lol upon lol upon lol upon lol!

i said "IN MY OPINION" and i am entitled to my opinion, just because others may not agree with my opinion does not mean i have to be ridiculed for that opinion..

My opinion is based on the fights of both fighters which i have seen... London being "Robbed of a KO" against Ingo Johansson, his excellent performance in his 3rd fight with Cooper.. his showing against Patterson & Quarry (1) his wins over Folley & Billy Walker...

David Tua being pounded by a 16-0 novice in Ibeabuchi, his debatable draw with Rahman, losing virtualy every round against Byrd & Lewis, his KO of Ruiz, his desputed decision win against "Tonato Can Cisse Salif".. his come from behind KO of Maskaev..

Brian London should not be judged on his KO Loss to Cassius Clay... because that was the Greatest Heavyweight the world has ever seen... i am sure David Tua would also have been KOd in just the same manner by Cassius Clay... Tua was poleaxed by Cuban great Felix Savon in the opening round...

Like it or not i will stick with my opinion that my money would be on London v Tua..

i also bet
Pacquiao to beat DeLaHoya - 8/1 TKO
Marquez to beat Barrera - 3/1
Eubank to beat Benn - 5/1 TKO
Jones to beat Toney - 3/1 PTS
Jones to beat Ruiz - 11/10 PTS
Holyfield to beat Tyson - 12/1 TKO

Valuev to beat Haye - 11/2 KO,TKO or DSQ

[mickey malone]

i said "IN MY OPINION" and i am entitled to my opinion, just because others may not agree with my opinion does not mean i have to be ridiculed for that opinion..

My opinion is based on the fights of both fighters which i have seen... London being "Robbed of a KO" against Ingo Johansson, his excellent performance in his 3rd fight with Cooper.. his showing against Patterson & Quarry (1) his wins over Folley & Billy Walker...

David Tua being pounded by a 16-0 novice in Ibeabuchi, his debatable draw with Rahman, losing virtualy every round against Byrd & Lewis, his KO of Ruiz, his desputed decision win against "Tonato Can Cisse Salif".. his come from behind KO of Maskaev..

Brian London should not be judged on his KO Loss to Cassius Clay... because that was the Greatest Heavyweight the world has ever seen... i am sure David Tua would also have been KOd in just the same manner by Cassius Clay... Tua was poleaxed by Cuban great Felix Savon in the opening round...

Like it or not i will stick with my opinion that my money would be on London v Tua..

i also bet
Pacquiao to beat DeLaHoya - 8/1 TKO
Marquez to beat Barrera - 3/1
Eubank to beat Benn - 5/1 TKO
Jones to beat Toney - 3/1 PTS
Jones to beat Ruiz - 11/10 PTS
Holyfield to beat Tyson - 12/1 TKO

Valuev to beat Haye - 11/2 KO,TKO or DSQ

Your opinion is on bended knee, and crying out to be ridiculed..

So Cooper, Johanson & Dick Richardson would all all beat Tua then?

Ibeabuchi was like the second coming of Liston, and a damn site more dangerous than London..

London was KO'd more than 10 times by the likes of

Jack Bodell
Dick Richardson
Roberto Davila
Jimmy Fletcher
Henry Cooper
Nino Valdez
Joe Bugner

The KO's just got more brutal as he moved up in class..

Ali, Patterson and Quarry all KTFO London..

You really must stop this hatred towards certain fighters.
It is clouding your judgement irrepairably..

[sonnyboyx2]

I believe someone wanted a comparison between Lewis and Tyson..

World championship resume =

Lennox Lewis 19-2-1 (11 KO's + 1 DQ) (KO'd 2)

Mike Tyson 15-3-0 (10 KO's) (KO'd 2 + 1 DQ))

I think it's fair to say that Lewis will never measure up to Ali in greatness..
other posters have already highlighted that you can pick holes all day long in the opponents that both have faced, as well as any fighter who has laced on a pair of gloves..
What we need to emphasize here is, why are certain fighters discredited by minority individuals?
Ok, Ali has a better championship resume than Lewis, but when you compare it to Tyson's, I'd say Lennox edges it..

Berbick as opposed to Tucker
Smith as opposed to Aikinwande
Williams as opposed to Golota
Tubbs as opposed to Grant
Thomas as opposed to Briggs
Spinks as opposed to Morrison
Seldon as opposed to Mavrovic
Douglas as opposed to McCall
PP Holmes as opposed to PP Tyson

Where's the big gap in class here?

Both fighters have defeated various versions of Golota, Tucker, Botha, Ruddock & Bruno..
Lewis drew and won against Holyfield, where as Mike lost twice, and people laughably suggest, that was a past prime Holy, when he's still fighting for titles today!
Lewis also stopped a prime Vitaly when he was 38 years old, while at the same age, Tyson was getting KO'd by Kevin McBride..... Case Closed..

Berbick opposed to Tucker -- Tucker a junkie
Williams opposed to Golota -- Golota was tranquilized
Tubbs opposed to Grant -- Tubbs skillful ex champ
Thomas opposed to Briggs -- Thomas far superior
Spinks opposed to Morrison - Morrison HIV Spinks pure class
Seldon opposed to Mavrovic - about even money fight
Douglas opposed to McCall - Douglas had already beat McCall
PP Holmes opposed to PP Tyson - Tyson KO

Holyfield was "Robbed" in his rematch with Lewis
Tyson fought a prime Tucker, Lewis fought a junkie
Tyson hammered Bruno, Lewis was fortunate vs Bruno
Ruddock was `Damaged Goods` vs Lewis

[GJC]

GJC you have wrote this as if you have just came off the Boxrec website?

I'll admit to using it to jogging my memory as I don't carry Ron Lyle etc record in my head

Frazier vs Ali (2) forgotten classic

I think clasic is a overselling it, the interest in it is the fact that it is Ali Frazier had it have been 2 other boxers it would have been forgotton the next day.

Patterson was far from shot in 1965 to suggest he was is untrue

Was he a has been or a never was? Liston finished him whatever

Foreman - "Drugged"-- `laughable`

Well Foreman thinks he was and Budini Brown says he was so they would know better than you I would think?

Norton - Lost fights 2 & 3

Second fight is debatable but I think you'd struggle to find many who'd agree that Ali won the 3rd.

Bugner - How the hell do you fight Muhammad Ali and only go in to survive?

Don't know how and why but thats all Bugner did i've seen stuffed teddy bears show more aggression

London vs Tua - IMO my money would be on London, i have many of Brian Londons fights and he is a tough cookie there is no doubt about that - i suggest you watch his fight with Patterson & Cooper (3) both classics.. Tua was a bum

I'd happily take the London Tua bet along with 100's of others.

[GJC]

[QUOTE=sonnyboyx2;6550833]

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying Lewis ducked anyone, I'm not saying Lewis is not a great champion. For Lewis' 2nd run as champion, he was the best heavyweight around. No doubt. I can assume Bowe ducked him, but that doesn't change the fact that he didn't fight Bowe. I can't reward Lewis for fighting everyone when he didn't fight everyone, even if they ducked him. I can't say that Michael Grant for example was a big win for Lewis because at the time Grant was so highly regarded, when I know for a fact now that Grant was a product of hype and barely a boxer. It can't be ignored. It doesn't mean Lewis sucked, but it should knock him down a peg. I don't think that's unfair, and I think it is unfair to rate Lewis with Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, etc., when the quality of opponent is just not the same. What was it that RA dude said in that Floyd Mayweather "interview"? "I could fight 15 girls and go undefeated." Maybe he was just unlucky. Getting KO'd by an above average journeyman in McCall and a solid contender in Rahman hurts him too. I would do the same if Holmes had been KO'd by Renaldo Snipes or Mike Weaver.[/QUO

well said post

Yes very good balanced post