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Langford Seemingly Admits Neither He Nor Ketchel Floored Johnson

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  • Langford Seemingly Admits Neither He Nor Ketchel Floored Johnson

    Recently ran into the article that was mentioned in Clay Moyle's book on Sam Langford. Most of it is about why he chose Jack Johnson as the greatest fighter, but I noticed a couple of lines that were not mentioned because they weren't really relevant to the topic being discussed in the book.

    In the penultimate paragraph, he says:

    Nobody ever knocked Johnson down. I know he kidded with Ketchel and slipped with Sandy Ferguson, but he was never there on the floor while the referee counted.
    Seems obvious to me that he would be including his match with Johnson, but he also calls out the Ketchel fight by name. I don't think it was a big secret that the Ketchel knockdown was not legitimate.

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  • #2
    Jack Johnson side steps Sam Langford! Read it.

    https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...arRange&page=1
    Last edited by Dr. Z; 02-26-2021, 07:57 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post
      Jack Johnson side steps Sam Langford! Read it.

      https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...arRange&page=1
      Nice try. I guess you are not going to mention that Johnson was already signed to fight Jim Jeffries and got a whopping $117,000? He made it clear that Jeffries was next.


      But no worries bro. Johnson agree to fight Langford THREE TIMES after the Jeffries fight. Once in Boston circa Sept. 1910, once in Philly circa January 1911, and once in Australia circa October 1912. Langford accepted the Philly fight and then realized he couldn't get out of a previous match he had set up. Here's the Boston one from your brother, Clay. Clearly states Langford and Manager agreed to post the money but failed to do so or couldn't do so. The final time we both know the promoter dropped Johnson after he was busted for the Mann Act.

      Here is the one from your brother, Clay, since you keep ducking it.

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      And by the way, notice the beginning of the story. Johnson claims he tried to also make this fight while in NY but Langford and Woodman failed to post their money. Langford then claims Johnson ran away before Woodman posted the money, to which Johnson pulls out a wad of cash and says he bets $1000 that not one cent was posted. Langford then drops the topic. It could have been FOUR times that Johnson agreed yet through no fault of his own it didn't come off.

      The more I discuss this topic, the more it appears to me that Jack Johnson ducking was a complete myth played up by frustrated managers and latched onto by contemporary and present day Jack Johnson haters. I have no doubt he truly believed that the Sam Langford fight wouldn't sell. I think that would be the only reason that he wouldn't want the fight. He certainly wasn't enthusiastic about it, and I think that's because he was sute it would fail financially. But what we see is that he accepted this fight for the same amount guaranteed that he was fighting white men for TWICE at least. He also accepted a short 6 round fight for $10,000 and a side bet of $10,000 that he would knock Langford out within that time and Langford accepted but decided to go ahead with a previously arranged fight instead. Like Clay says, the best time to make this fight was the above story for the $20,000 that all parties agreed and shook upon, and it was Sam Langford and his manager that dropped the ball.


      So once again. Did Jack Johnson agree to fight Sam Langford THREE TIMES and have the fight not come off due to no fault of his own? Waitinggggggg.....
      Last edited by travestyny; 02-26-2021, 11:44 AM.

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      • #4
        @ Travestyny. As I told you Langford clearly states he did floor Johnson. This article says so. Langford himself goes into more detail in another article.

        " Round Ten. Langford put his whole 155 lbs. behind a straight jab that caught Johnson right under the heart, and Johnson's' face contorted with pain as he fell to the canvas. "Four, five, six" Johnson was back up on his feet and the carnage continued. For 15 rounds Langford held his own with the mighty Jack Johnson, and so savagely did he counterattack that it was Johnson who was the more exhausted at the end."


        http://boxingbiographies.co.uk/asset...angford-bb.pdf

        I'm sure every offer Johnson had to meet Langford was not for this liking. It like Lennox Lewis years ago saying I'll fight Klitschko again for $50,000,000.00. Sure-sure. Simply rate the bar to a point where no one can offer it. I call that a duck

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post
          @ Travestyny. As I told you Langford clearly states he did floor Johnson. This article says so. Langford himself goes into more detail in another article.

          " Round Ten. Langford put his whole 155 lbs. behind a straight jab that caught Johnson right under the heart, and Johnson's' face contorted with pain as he fell to the canvas. "Four, five, six" Johnson was back up on his feet and the carnage continued. For 15 rounds Langford held his own with the mighty Jack Johnson, and so savagely did he counterattack that it was Johnson who was the more exhausted at the end."


          http://boxingbiographies.co.uk/asset...angford-bb.pdf

          I'm sure every offer Johnson had to meet Langford was not for this liking. It like Lennox Lewis years ago saying I'll fight Klitschko again for $50,000,000.00. Sure-sure. Simply rate the bar to a point where no one can offer it. I call that a duck
          That's not what Langford said here, son


          XPTUpu.png



          "Nobody ever knocked Johnson down."



          Keep trying doe

          Fleischer once cornered Woodman and good-naturedly demanded the true version of events. According to Fleischer, this was Woodman’s response: “You’ve got me, Nat. Langford never dropped Johnson. But I was anxious to fix up another fight between the two and, knowing Jack’s pride, I invented the story of that knockdown to goad him into the ring against Sam again. Although it never happened, all the newspapermen believed it. They just never took the trouble to investigate. That knockdown was just a publicity gimmick.”

          https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/J...._Sam_Langford
          Last edited by travestyny; 02-26-2021, 01:34 PM.

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          • #6
            "Nobody ever knocked Johnson down." WOW, you must be joking. Do you need more from the French Press or from Langford himself

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post
              "Nobody ever knocked Johnson down." WOW, you must be joking. Do you need more from the French Press or from Langford himself
              Why would I need more from Langford himself when I just gave you some from Langford himself


              Plus, you dummy, learn the difference between an autobiography and a biography. That isn't from Sam Langford you fool. LMAO. Not only that, but it talks about a jab to the heart in round 10 . Woodman stated it was an uppercut in round two.

              That is, before he admit that he made it all up.


              But just to add more insult to injury, take this from your own link, dummy:

              Many writers have expressed the idea that Johnson was afraid of Langford and that Sam almost beat Johnson in their 1906 non-title bout. The fact is that Johnson gave Sam a solid beating, knocking him down and probably out (except for a slow count). Langford said "… he [Johnson] gave me the only real beating I ever took"

              A jab to the heart in round 10 huh? That's what you are now on record as saying you believe. I think I've just proven that you don't know shlt being that you got the punch and round wrong but were so eager to pump it as truth here. LMAOOOO.
              Go away, dummy, and stop embarrassing yourself. Just give up.

              Oh, and why get it from French press when you can get it from Boston (you know...WHERE THE FIGHT HAPPENED) and Rhode Island the day after the fight. LMAO.



              1906-04-27 The Boston Journal (Boston, MA) (page 9)
              LANGFORD LOSES IN GAME FIGHT
              --------
              Sam Langford was beaten badly by Jack Johnson at Chelsea last night, but earned the cheers of his admirers and many more besides by a superb exhibition of grit and courage that makes other local exhibitions of gameness in the ring fade almost into insignificance.

              He was there all through the fifteen rounds, and saved a lot of money for his friends who had bet that he would last ten rounds, twelve rounds or stay the limit. But it is a question if he were wire, for the beating he took is enough to seriously impair his strength and health.

              Most of the punishment was on the head, and so may not have the injurious effect that a severe drubbing on the body would have. Sam didn't have a chance on earth to win, for he was outweighed about thirty-five pounds, and Johnson was too clever, too fast, too heavy, too strong and too powerful in punching for him.

              Sam went down three times. On the first occasion it looked as if he slipped or stumbled to his knees, as the accompanying punch was not heavy. He was knocked down with a powerful left hook in the middle of the sixth round and lay on his face. He was down just nine seconds, according to Timekeeper Murphy, a thoroughly honest man, and the referee, Maffit Flaherty, who says he was on his feet at the call of nine, and according to several watches in the hands of men around the ring.

              Down Again.
              Later on in the same round he was down again for nine seconds. On the first knockdown it looked as if he couldn't continue. But he arose within the specified ten seconds. The second time he went to the floor from a right hand smash on the jaw. He wasn't in such a bad way and arose all right. Johnson tried his best to give him his quietus, but was exhausted and weak from punching and couldn't land the knockout.

              It was a one-sided fight. It was all Johnson all the way. Sam did well on his left stabs and showed at times an inclination to shoot the right over for Jack's jaw. But he was outclassed too much naturally to make it any kind of an even fight.

              Johnson's showing was commented on by everybody who declared that his challenges to Jeffries were preposterous. He would have been an easy mark for the champion had he been taken on.

              Johnson was esquired by Joe Walcott, Kid Murray, Jack McCloskey and Santy Ferguson and George Dixon gave advice from the corner. George Byers, Andy Watson and other friends were in Sam's corner.

              -----------------------------------------------

              1906-04-27 The Evening Times (Pawtucket, RI) (page 2)
              JOHNSON FAILS TO KNOCK OUT SAM LANGFORD
              --------
              Jack Johnson of Texas, the big colored heavyweight, who claims the heavyweight championship of the world, tried with might and main for 15 rounds last night at the Lincoln Club, Chelsea, to knock out Sam Langford of Cambridge. Considering the fact that Langford was nearly 40 pounds lighter and fully a foot shorter this does not add to the credit of Johnson, but must be considered quite a performance for Langford, and this great middleweight will probably have greater difficulty in getting matches than he has had in the past. True, during the 15 rounds that the pair were at it, Langford was hammered as no fighter ever has been hammered in the same number of rounds, but the fact remains that Johnson could not knock him out, and whether it was due to Langford's ability to take punishment or Johnson's absence of a knockout punch has nothing to do with the matter, but it is hard to see a champion in a heavyweight of 195 pounds who cannot stop a middleweight, at the heaviest in this time.

              The battle itself was about as wicked an event as has been seen in a long while, and was too one-sided to be of interest, the only thing that could possibly be imagined as a cause for the enthusiasm that was aroused being Langford's gameness and his staying the full 15 rounds.

              Previous to the starting of the battle the betting was all that Langford would or would not stay the distance. For a while in the early rounds Langford showed beautifully, using his left in a wonderful manner, but after about the fourth round Johnson began hooking his left to the body and swinging right and left wickedly to the head. In the sixth round Johnson rushed Langford to the ropes, smashed him about the body and wound up with a terrific left hook to the jaw, and Langford went to the mat for the count, laying on his face and apparently all out. But he regained his feet and hugged through the round, but Johnson, with his superior weight and strength, shook Langford off and whaled him viciously and dropped him to the mat again for a few seconds.

              From then on the fight was too one-sided to be interesting. Johnson closed Langford's left eye and gave him the worst licking a man ever took in the Chelsea ring, and there was never a chance for Langford, though he was game to the finish and flashed occasionally. Langford's face was a sight at the end of the contest, and it is a question as to just how the licking he received last night will affect him in the future.

              In the preliminaries, Johnnie Ryan knocked out Custer Dow in the second round and Rudolph Unholz of South Africa whipped Jimmy Martin of California, Jack Johnson's sparring partner, in a hard six-round battle.

              Three words. ONE SIDED BEATING. Like you usually take in these threads.
              Last edited by travestyny; 02-26-2021, 06:09 PM.

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              • #8
                Nat Fleischers brother in law was an eye witness to the Johnson - Langford bout. He described the bout as completely one sided and that Johnson had Sam on the verge of a KO numerous times but held back. At the end of the bout Johnson was unmarked while Langford was sent to a hospital.

                The idea Sam knocked Johnson down was debunked many decades ago. Woodman admitted he made it up to piss off Johnson. To claim the knockdown actually occurred is being completely intellectually dishonest. It never happened.

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                • #9
                  There was a side bet Langford would last the distance, he did. The OP in the thread is being dishonest, picking and choosing Sam's words when it suits him.

                  I'm just having fun at his expense, giving him some other words Langford said.

                  " Round Ten. Langford put his whole 155 lbs. behind a straight jab that caught Johnson right under the heart, and Johnson's' face contorted with pain as he fell to the canvas. "Four, five, six" Johnson was back up on his feet and the carnage continued. For 15 rounds Langford held his own with the mighty Jack Johnson, and so savagely did he counterattack that it was Johnson who was the more exhausted at the end."


                  http://boxingbiographies.co.uk/asset...angford-bb.pdf

                  I'm sure every offer Johnson had to meet Langford was not for this liking. Its like Lennox Lewis years ago saying I'll fight Klitschko again for $50,000,000.00. Sure-sure. Simply raise the bar to a point where no one can offer it. I call that a duck.

                  Then the same guy is using thee examples of why they never fought, when there are far more than that! Should I quote Langford again on why there was no title match?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dr. Z View Post
                    There was a side bet Langford would last the distance, he did. The OP in the thread is being dishonest, picking and choosing Sam's words when it suits him.

                    I'm just having fun at his expense, giving him some other words Langford said.

                    " Round Ten. Langford put his whole 155 lbs. behind a straight jab that caught Johnson right under the heart, and Johnson's' face contorted with pain as he fell to the canvas. "Four, five, six" Johnson was back up on his feet and the carnage continued. For 15 rounds Langford held his own with the mighty Jack Johnson, and so savagely did he counterattack that it was Johnson who was the more exhausted at the end."


                    http://boxingbiographies.co.uk/asset...angford-bb.pdf

                    I'm sure every offer Johnson had to meet Langford was not for this liking. Its like Lennox Lewis years ago saying I'll fight Klitschko again for $50,000,000.00. Sure-sure. Simply raise the bar to a point where no one can offer it. I call that a duck.

                    Then the same guy is using thee examples of why they never fought, when there are far more than that! Should I quote Langford again on why there was no title match?
                    Go away already, dumbo. You're still talking about a jab to the heart in round 10 when the claim was that it was a right uppercut in round two. You're pathetic

                    You couldn't even quote my post that made this clear. That's all you do is duck shamelessly and ignore everything that proves you wrong in favor of spouting the same dumb shlt that you've been proven wrong about.

                    And how are you talking about JJohnson pricing himself out when the offers he accepted were also accepted by Langford. They both accepted THREE TIMES. Langford himself stated that he would post $20,000 within a day to fight Johnson in the tale in Clay Moyle's book, and when Johnson accepted, Langford failed to post the funds. Nothing you say ever holds up.

                    I'm bored of your ducking . Welcome to the iggy bin. Oh.....but please be sure to post a thread when Clay Moyle comes thru and tells you that he can't help you I'll be waiting.
                    Last edited by travestyny; 02-27-2021, 12:58 PM.

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