What fights did Ali train the hardest for?

[boxingbuff]

Geeeezzzz,there is sooo much I want to respond to,but I type in slow motion with one finger.My spelling is also very poor and i have to look up many words when posting.

I hope to get back to the many points and posts at a later time.

[MrBreach]

To qoute resident happy man Larry Holmes "Ali would **** a snake if you held it's head"

haha, thats hilarious, and probably true

[boxingbuff]

haha, thats hilarious, and probably true

It's true when he was in his 30's,but at ages 20-25 it was the other way around.Some boxing experts actually bet on Clay to beat Liston when they heard of his training without sex.Liston even thought he was gay,and said so.

[boxingbuff]

Yes in Manilla Ali was a fairly heavy 224 Lbs, nothing like the dancing 212Lbs Ali who faced Frazier the year before. Ali trained for power in the third fight, I think he may have even hired Saddler to hone his power, he wanted to do a Foreman on Frazier although he clearly had no chance of doing this.

As for his hardest trained fights, I'd go with:

Liston 1
Terrell
Norton 2
Frazier 2
Foreman
Norton 3
Spinks 2

As for Ali being a ****** in 64, I very much doubt it! In the Durham biography he apparently lost it to a ********** when he was 16.......and lost his amateur fight the next day. He says that after this there was many more from then on up to Sonji. There were ****sexual rumours because he didn't like to have his picture taken with many women and I dont doubt his dedication to his training.....but a ****** at 22........naaaaa.

I once heard that in the 70s his entourage would have the entire floor of the hotel filled with girls and Ali would go from room to room. Apparently the Black ******s told him that it was ok to have sex outside of wedlock for as long as he was not to hit ****** with any of them. Strange and possibly true?!

I also read in Ali's book where he said he had sex with a **********. I think he was covering up the fact he was a ******.While training in Miami from 1960-64 many times pimps offered him girls and he always turned them down.Sonny Liston even asked him why he never saw him with girls? And said Ali was gay.Then the pimps thinking he was gay,started offering him gay **********s! If Ali did have sex with a **********,that was the only time when he won the Championship from Liston.All he wanted to do or think about was boxing!There is a good chance he was a ****** at 22 when Heavyweing Champion of the World!! He DID NOT SAY there were many more girls he had sex with after the ********** until Sonji.

I like your list of the hardest fights Ali trained for BUT Ali said it was the 2nd Spinks fight that he trained 3 months for!! I should have said the hardest fights Ali trained for AFTER his 3 1/2 year lay-off.

[boxingbuff]

I was responding to princemanspoper with that comment.

Ali may not have been as trim but according to his own words he was in as great a shape for that fight as he ever was.

Dr Freddie Pacheco said Ali was in better shape for the Forman fight then the Trilla' in Manilla.

Where did Ali ever say he was in as good a shape for the trilla' in Manilla as he ever was?

Yes,he was in good condition for Joe Bugner(The fight before Frazier)and had to be in good condition for the Trilla' in Manilla,but he didn't train as hard as he did for the 2nd Spinks or the 2nd Norton fight.

Ali may have said he was in the best shape of his life against Frazier in the Trilla' in Manilla BUT when serious and talking strickly about that topic he said the 2nd Spinks and 2nd Norton fight.Angelo Dundee said he trained the hardest for the 1st Frazier fight.So that has to be up there too.

[mrboxer]

the fight was against george chuvalo,he heard he had a good chin and was a good puncher,ali won the fight but it was close it could of went the other way

[princemanspoper]

Where the hell did you hear that? Ali despite suffering some internal injuries from the first chuvalo fight won in the very least 11 rounds,The fight wasn't remotely close,As for the second fight it was more competitive but Ali still won a clear decision


Chuvalo rated the 1966 Ali above the 1972 and the latter is generally regarded as the best version of Ali's comeback

[Sugarj]

Hi Boxingbuff,
Quote
'He DID NOT SAY there were many more girls he had sex with after the ********** until Sonji.'

'I like your list of the hardest fights Ali trained for BUT Ali said it was the 2nd Spinks fight that he trained 3 months for!! I should have said the hardest fights Ali trained for AFTER his 3 1/2 year lay-off.'


I'm sure I've read that after losing his ******ity he attended many parties and had sex with a number of other girls before Sonji. I'd like to think that a God fearing man such as Ali, writing his biography in his mid 30s would not stoop to telling tales to mask his ******ity at 22. Who knows, I may be wrong and if he did wait till wedlock...........good for him. I can only go with what I've read, it would be a big suprise if he was a ****** at 22.

Something else that leaves me to wonder otherwise is in his film 'The Greatest' where he acts as a young Cassius circa 62/63 picking up a white ********** before running into a group of black ******s who discourage him. He didn't act like it was his debut at this activity! If this isn't how he spent his time back then, why would he act it in his own movie? Surely if it were far from the truth he'd tell the director. Unless he genuinely wanted to project the image in hindsight that he was a ladies man...........which is a bit sad, even for a well reported legend of the ladies in the 70s.

As for Spinks 2, it was in my list. Although granted..........it wasn't the toughest fight, although one of the hardest he did train. Spinks had been introduced to ******* inbetween and wasn't nearly as good as he had been first time.

[American_Ninja]

Yes and No.I read where he trained hard and actually left the fight in the gym.

BUT he didn't train as hard as we were led to believe.Ali was taking medication for his thyroid,and actually doubled up on the medication because he said it made him feel so good.So instead of "working off" the weight he was speeding and allowing the thyroid medication take off the weight.He looked great at 217 lbs with a flat belly,and his gray hair dyied black! But it was an illusion.So he trained hard,but not near as hard as we where to believe.

I personally saw Ali spar 14 hard rounds in the last week of training camp for the Holmes fight. He looked good. It was not just medication and hair dye.

[Sugarj]

Hi Ninja, lucky man! Terrific that you got to see Ali spar in 1980. I'm interested, if you thought he looked good and lively through 14 rounds of sparring as to why he was so poor in the actual fight if it were not for the thyroid medication.

He was twice as good a year later against Berbick without the medication, although well past prime.

Against Holmes the only round in which he looked ok was round 7. He was clearly weak, nothing like as lively as in Spinks 2 only a couple of years earlier.

In the DVD 'Champions Forever' Ali says 'Against Holmes, I should have done better, I was more worried about my weight than my conditioning'. He may well have cained the thyroid pills on the lead up to the fight after the final week of preparation.

Personally I dont think that any version of the 70s Ali actually beats the 1980 Holmes. But Ali would have fought better without the thyroid medication and possibly a few more pounds on him ( he was 221 for Spinks 2 ).