If Ali never fought again after 1967

[TheGreatA]

Wow,you threw alot out there for a real slow typer like me.

I wouldn't say Ali got hit by "Alot" of good left hooks IN HIS PRIME.

After the 3 1/2 year lay-off Frazier hit him with "alot" of good left hooks,and some other fighters.Yes,Cooper dropped Ali with a good left hook,and Sonny Banks.But I'm not sure a 1967 Ali gets dropped by either.The Cooper rematch? Not close.Sonny banks was very early in his career.I don't see Ali getting hit with "alot" of good left hooks in his prime.Oh yes,I know that was the punch that Ali was suspectable to,and Williams had a "murderous" left hook.But prime for prime is just speculation.

I'd say that the left hook was the only punch he really got hit by in his prime. Chuvalo, Liston, Cooper, Patterson were only able to hit him to the head with this punch and only occasionally.

It's mostly because you can't really lean away from the left hook as easily, especially if it's thrown from a "blind spot", for example the left hook Cooper hit Ali with. Ali/Clay never saw it coming.

Now Williams may have been too limited to land anything significant on a prime Ali, but a quick left hooker with good stamina against Ali would always be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if Williams had given more trouble to Ali in his prime than Liston, despite Liston beating Williams twice.

It's a bit like Foreman and Frazier/Norton, with Foreman being too slow and crude to beat Ali, while being able to defeat Frazier and Norton because of his greater strength and punching power.

Williams lacked the chin to take Liston's best and the defense to avoid it, but he could trouble Ali because of his speed and stamina which Liston lacked.

You do a good job arguing(sp) against Ali if he never fought again after 1967.

And I know your just presenting what the critics would say if he never fought again after 1967.In fact,that is what they were saying about Ali's career from 1963-1967.I'm not taking what you say "personal",I'm just trying to argue Ali's point of view.Even the worst critics admitted Ali was the fastest Heavyweight of all-time.Something else I would present when arguing for Ali.I know I can't bring up Liston because his critics say Liston threw both fights.

Anyway,over time I believe Ali would be looked back upon as one of the greatest(Top 5) heavyweights of all-time.He never had a mark on his face after 9 title defenses!!

I might get overboard with my writing at times! I enjoy a good discussion about boxing and its history.

[boxingbuff]

I'd say that the left hook was the only punch he really got hit by in his prime. Chuvalo, Liston, Cooper, Patterson were only able to hit him to the head with this punch and only occasionally.

It's mostly because you can't really lean away from the left hook as easily, especially if it's thrown from a "blind spot", for example the left hook Cooper hit Ali with. Ali/Clay never saw it coming.

Now Williams may have been too limited to land anything significant on a prime Ali, but a quick left hooker with good stamina against Ali would always be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if Williams had given more trouble to Ali in his prime than Liston, despite Liston beating Williams twice.

It's a bit like Foreman and Frazier/Norton, with Foreman being too slow and crude to beat Ali, while being able to defeat Frazier and Norton because of his greater strength and punching power.

Williams lacked the chin to take Liston's best and the defense to avoid it, but he could trouble Ali because of his speed and stamina which Liston lacked.



I might get overboard with my writing at times! I enjoy a good discussion about boxing and its history.

Oh, I understand the Norton,Frazier,Forman,Ali senario.And how Williams would give Ali a much better fight than Liston did,dispite Liston KO'ing Williams twice.STYLES MAKE FIGHTS...And Williams would give Ali a much better fight than Liston did.Just Like Norton and Frazier beating Ali,and Ali KO Forman.I understand.I boxed myself and wrestled in high school and college and I know STYLES make fights and matches.I know Williams had a good murderous left hook that could catch Ali,and had better hand speed than Liston and stamina to give Ali a long night.Just like Norton had a style that would bother a prime Ali.But Williams and Liston would destroy Norton in 2 rounds.I understand what your saying.

Geeezzz,that was alot of typing for someone who can barley type,and is a bad typer and speller.Lol

[StarshipTrooper]

I might get overboard with my writing at times! I enjoy a good discussion about boxing and its history.

Are you kidding? I'd rather read the stuff a scholar like you produces than any of the ignorant fan-boi stuff over in NSB.....keep posting and go as long as you want!

Poet

[sonnyboyx2]

When Muhammad Ali refused induction into the Army in 1967 and was stripped of his Title there were many prople who believed he would never fight again.

If Ali had never fought again after his fight with Zora Folley in 1967,where do you believe he would be ranked today?

still No1 .. Cassius Clay was unbeatable, Muhammad Ali was beatable

[Obama]

When was Ali meant to have ducked Harold Johnson?

After the Jones fight. Harold wanted him cuz he saw Ali go life and death with a guy he clowned. Johnson, like Young, was another Philadelphia fighter who would make Ali not look as great as some people would claim he is.

Anyways, this went in tandem with the ripping Ali's pre-exile resume to shreds argument. It's not an issue raised now cuz Ali came back and fought the best of the best.

Still, I do wish Ali did fight Johnson. Ali made a legacy off of embarrassing slow big men (Liston, Foreman). A lot of smaller quicker fighters gave him hell.

[boxingbuff]

Back to the Ali-Cleveland Williams fight.

Ali did what he was supposed to do with THAT Cleveland Williams.

The Cleveland Williams that Ali fought,Ali did what he was supposed to do against him.