Muhammed Ali And Joe Louis: Who's The Greatest Heavyweight?

[fight_professor]

Malone,

How does Louis beat Ali on resume?

Ali fought the best level of competition in HW History. Not only other legends, but many solid HW in the bracket below that.

[mickey malone]

Malone,

How does Louis beat Ali on resume?

Ali fought the best level of competition in HW History. Not only other legends, but many solid HW in the bracket below that.

Ali had 2 spells absent.. Louis had 1 spell with more title defenses.. I've already said the confrontation is 50/50, but numericaly Louis has the better resume, period.. Louis also had far more KO's in world title fights or otherwise.. He fought for longer, had less defeats on his record & P4P fought bigger men, far more often.. Does that suffice?

[Sugarj]

Its arguable definitely, I guess Louis's 12 year title reign, 25 consecutive defenses, his one early loss avenged emphatically, every other close fight was won more emphatically in the rematch. Plus the scalps of six former or future heavyweight champs.

Its very close though, the seventies was a peach of a decade and Ali beat everyone asked of him when at least four years+ past his prime.

[mickey malone]

Its arguable definitely, I guess Louis's 12 year title reign, 25 consecutive defenses, his one early loss avenged emphatically, every other close fight was won more emphatically in the rematch. Plus the scalps of six former or future heavyweight champs.

Its very close though, the seventies was a peach of a decade and Ali beat everyone asked of him when at least four years+ past his prime.

Emphatically being the key word...

[Sugarj]

I'd make a dreadful journalist using that bleeding word twice in one sentence, but hell Joe Louis deserved it for what he did to Schmelling, Conn, Godoy, Simon and Walcott in return matches!

[fight_professor]

The best on Joe Louis's resume are not equal to Liston, Foreman, Frazier.

You cant discount the end of career (EoC) losses of Louis and not cut Ali the same slack in terms of years lost. Had exile not happened, Ali would have held his belt from 63-Frazier 1, that'd be a few more defenses etc.

You are penalizing Ali for something which was not his fault.

TBH, I see some of Ali's B competition taking Joe to hell and back.

So where is this resume better then Ali's exactly?

Look at this:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...9027&cat=boxer

If bigger = better competition as your logic suggests, I suggest Klit be declared the best.

And in a h-2-h Ali/JL is a shut out. Sorry fam, but that's real talk.

[fight_professor]

And TBH Louis had a weak jaw. Joe Walcott floored him 3 times in total, which his relatively light fists. Liston, Foreman and Frazier would KO Joe Louis.

[Sugarj]

I see both angles here. Louis fought and destroyed everyone about and left no stone unturned, its all you can ask of any champion. Where there was any doubt Louis took the rematch and did the business better.

What we have to remember is that during the 30s and 40s black heavyweights were not given the opportunities that they were two or three decades later, its no accident that most of Joe's defenses were against white challengers. Who knows who Louis could have brushed shoulders with were prejudice reduced.

Ali's resume was terrific partially due to the excellent competition which was available, he didn't masterclass everybody he faced and some would argue that Joe Louis was more dominant over the opponents he faced. Without the exile I think Ali would have pasted Quarry, Ellis and Frazier before they hit their respective peaks between 1968 and 1970.

I think Ali's first loss would come to Ken Norton in an alternative world but hell its fun to summise.

Lastly there was nothing wrong with Walcott's punch power! Ezzard Charles, one punch KO (Marciano couldn't do this!) and he dealt Marciano one of his hardest knockdowns too. Three knockdowns against Joe Louis was a testiment to his power, I can remember two of them and they were pretty savage (the right hand that put Louis down in the return would fell most heavyweights).

[Obama]

Malone,

How does Louis beat Ali on resume?

Ali fought the best level of competition in HW History. Not only other legends, but many solid HW in the bracket below that.

Actually I'd reckon Holyfield did. He just doesn't have the win/loss ratio Ali does.

[fight_professor]

Holy fought some top cats too.