Sonny Liston vs. Joe Frazier

[boxingbuff]

[QUOTE=TheGreatA;5699252]He cleaned out the heavyweight division before fighting Ali who is usually recognized as the greatest heavyweight of all time.

I've seen film of Eddie Machen, Zora Folley, Cleveland Williams and they certainly do not seem to be bums to me. Even fighters like Roy Harris, Nino Valdes, Mike DeJohn, Johnny Summerlin, Wayne Bethea, Henry Clark were all top 10 ranked contenders.

I have seen these Liston fights also.These guys were all very,very good.Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams had awesome punching power and a murdereous left hook,and Liston KO'd him in two brutal battles.Machen and Folley were very good boxers.Read Joe Frazier's book and what he said about Machen.Mike DeJohn was also a very heavy hitter.Nino Valdes was the Big Cuban.Your right,Liston cleaned out the heavyweight division against very,very good boxers and punchers.Liston knocked out Wayne Bethea's teeth with a left jab!

[Stoppage]

This could go either way as they both possessed great knockout power. Overall, I see Frazier winning it.

[billionaire]

Frazier had excellent head movement.. He's also faced and beaten one of the best jabbers in the businees, who also outjabbed Liston easily.. Liston would miss, tire & lose..

fraziers head movement is overrated, he ate so many clean shots he just had a great chin to keep moving forward.....duran is the example of great head movement he rarely got hit clean.....

[princemanspoper]

Joe frazier ducked an old washed up sonny liston just like he ducked mac foster,ron lyle,earnie shavers,al lewis and leotis martin

his glass jaw couldn't handle real big punchers and that's why he and his smart managment avoided such fighters throughout his entire career

Frazier would have been a nightmare for Liston..

1. He wouldn't have been intimidated
2. He was too fast for Liston
3. He had more heart than Liston
4. He hit hard as hard as Liston

****i*g idiot,he was certainly intimidated the first time around against george foreman.Too fast was he? you mean like a prime floyd patterson? more heart than liston? why don't you just admit that you know nothing about liston other than his fights with ali? I guess you wouldn't know he had his jaw broken yet he continued on would you?

frazier quit against ali the third time around and convinced eddie futch to come up with a **** and bull story about him wanting to continue? do you no recall frazier running like a coward from foreman's big right hand either?

lmao he hit harder than liston now did he? not only are you a cop out who speads his legs apart to other bully boy posters but you also don't know **** about boxing

[Miburo]

I'm not sure about this one, Frazier would likely have to take Liston's heart to win. It's not out of the question that if Frazier put on a good enough showing in the early rounds Liston might crumble as he did against Ali. Physically and stylistically Liston should perhaps be favored though.

[TheGreatA]

fraziers head movement is overrated, he ate so many clean shots he just had a great chin to keep moving forward.....duran is the example of great head movement he rarely got hit clean.....

His head movement post 1971 is overrated... Look at some of his prime fights though, you would really have to set him up to get a clean punch in and he often smothered his opponents' attack before they could get any punches off.

Liston however was great at feinting the jab and landing the uppercut (something he did to Patterson several times). He was also an underrated inside fighter, despite his long arms.

[Sugarj]

Frazier's head movement was good which is why I think he would go a few rounds with Liston. The trouble for me is that Frazier's chin was not brilliant at absorbing the really hard punches. He may not have beaten Shavers or Lyle if they had met too.

If Oscar Bonavena can have him down twice in one fight I'd favour Liston to keep him there should he have connected.

[mickey malone]

Frazier's head movement was good which is why I think he would go a few rounds with Liston. The trouble for me is that Frazier's chin was not brilliant at absorbing the really hard punches. He may not have beaten Shavers or Lyle if they had met too.

If Oscar Bonavena can have him down twice in one fight I'd favour Liston to keep him there should he have connected.

Very true, but what were Listons defensive skills, if a big hooker like Frazier suddenly let his hands go? I don't think Sonny knew too much about defense.. Rarely took a step backwards, had zero head movement & tended to rely on his extended reach/powerful jab too much.. I'm of the opinion that he fought too many guys who allowed him to do this.. I believe Frazier would get inside & break him down...

[TheGreatA]

Very true, but what were Listons defensive skills, if a big hooker like Frazier suddenly let his hands go? I don't think Sonny knew too much about defense.. Rarely took a step backwards, had zero head movement & tended to rely on his extended reach/powerful jab too much.. I'm of the opinion that he fought too many guys who allowed him to do this.. I believe Frazier would get inside & break him down...

I think his defensive skills were very solid. He had good head movement, blocked well, used the shoulders to deflect punches, stepped out of range, etc.

Nothing flashy but he was rarely hit flush.


6:30

[Gettin Jiggy]

I think his defensive skills were very solid. He had good head movement, blocked well, used the shoulders to deflect punches, stepped out of range, etc.

Nothing flashy but he was rarely hit flush.


6:30

Was Frazier blind in one eye and how long was it for? was it from his amature days or just late on in his career? and how was he passing eye test medicals?