Is Wlad an All Time Great Heavyweight?

[Esquire Dale]

Fought the same level of competition as Joe Louis? That's not true at all.

Louis beat Baer, Carnera, Schmeling, Braddock, Conn (x2), Walcott (x2), Lewis, Galento, Levinsky, Farr, Uzcudun, Sharkey, Bivins.. the guys competition isn't slightly superior, it's FAR superior to the guys that Wlad faced. It isn't even close.

Both Holmes & Tyson beat superior opposition as well.
Holmes defeated; Norton, Shavers (x2), Weaver, Ali, Berbick, L. Spinks, Cooney, Cobb, Witherspoon, Snipes, Williams, Smith & Mercer.. he lost only to Spinks & Tyson in which both times he was past his prime for the Spinks fight and 2 years of inactivity as well as being past prime for Tyson. Aside from that he remained a good Heavyweight after that beating the undefeated Mercer and losing a very respectable decision to a prime and undefeated Evander Holyfield. It isn't even close!

Tyson beat Spinks, Williams, Thomas, Tucker, Smith, Biggs, Holmes, Ratliff, Bruno (x2), Tillman, Stewart, Ruddock (x2), Seldon, Golota, Nielsen, Tillis, Green..

Wladimir Klitschko has beaten more or less the top heavyweights of this particular era, but his era is unfortunately among the worst (if not the worst) heavyweight eras in living memory.

Sums it up.

Wladimir has been knocked out three times aswell by people low on the rankings, well into his career too. That's never happened to any other great heavyweights.

he beat alltime greats like sultan ibragimov and ray austin so yes......

lol. I hope that was sarcasm :P

Wlad is top 50 at best.

[knn]

Louis beat Baer, Carnera, Schmeling, Braddock, Conn (x2), Walcott (x2), Lewis, Galento, Levinsky, Farr, Uzcudun, Sharkey, Bivins..

Let's check whom you compare to Wlad's competition:

• Schmeling - a cruiser opponent
• Braddock - a cruiser opponent
• Conn (x2) - a cruiser opponent (actually sub-cruiser)
• Walcott (x2) - a cruiser opponent
• Lewis - a cruiser opponent
• Galento - a 79-26 featherfist
• Levinsky - a cruiser opponent
• Farr - a 81-30 featherfist
• Uzcudun - a 50-17 featherfist
• Sharkey - a cruiser opponent
• Bivins - a cruiser opponent

DONT EVER COMPARE these opponents to the opponents of Klitschko.

Compare Joe Louis with David Haye or with Juan Carlos Gomez, not with Klitschko.

And too bad that the 2 heavies left (Max Baer 68-13 and Primo Carnera 89-14) were also not involved in a heavyweight fight with Joe Louis, since Louis himself was below 200.

the guys competition isn't slightly superior, it's FAR superior to the guys that Wlad faced. It isn't even close.

Unfortunately for you, I ACTUALLY CHECKED the FACTUAL RECORDs.

Both Holmes & Tyson beat superior opposition as well.

Yes, Holmes and Tyson you can compare indeed to Klitschko. They are real heavyweight ATGs.

Wladimir Klitschko has beaten more or less the top heavyweights of this particular era, but his era is unfortunately among the worst (if not the worst) heavyweight eras in living memory.

Nonsense, and it won't get any truer by repeating it.

There has been not a worse HW era than Marciano's era and before. Now we have one of the best if not the best heavyweight era except that US boxers are exposed to global fighters and the world title isn't a local US-internal contest anymore.

I obviously need to remind everyone that in the 70ies a guy with Parkinson (Ali) was fighting against a 6-0 bum for the unified world title. THAT's how bad it was in the 70ies.

In the 80ies a Larry Homes was fighting in world title fights that included opponents such as Leon Spinks (26-17), David Bey (18-11), Scott LeDoux (33-13), Lucien Rodriguez (33-12) and other bums.

In the 90ies a Evan Fields (current heavyweight record 24-10!) was fighting against a 36-22 guy (Bert Cooper) for the unified world title.

The 2000s compare pretty well to past eras. It's merely the US commentators who ***** around.

IN THE WHOLE 70ies Muhammad Ali scored 5 (FIVE) KOs against 200+lbs opponents within 12 rounds (average weight 215lbs). That's how crappy the golden age was.

[knn]

Wladimir has been knocked out three times aswell by people low on the rankings, well into his career too. That's never happened to any other great heavyweights.

Foreman has been genuinely floored by 2 featherfists (Ali and Jimmy Young). How often has that happened to ATGs?

Let me tell you the reason why Wlad has 3 KOs and other greats maybe not: BECAUSE OTHER ATGs didn't fights as many heavy opponents as Wlad.

In how many real heavyweight fights (= both opponents 200+) was Ali involved?

Ali: 28-4 (median win-opponent weight 213lbs)
Evan Fields: 24-10
Joe Louis: 11-0
Frazier: 13-4
Foreman: 59-5 (216lbs)
Tyson: 45-6 (221 lbs)
Lennox: 39-2 (229 lbs)
Wlad: 53-3 (233lbs)

THAT is the real reason why Klitschko has 3 KO losses on his record (aside from the fact that 2 of the losses were stamina issues): Nobody from the above ATGs has fought more heavier opponents than Klitschko. If you compare "KO losses of Ali and KO losses of Klitschko" then you are comparing a 28-4 guy (Ali) with a 53-3 guy (Klitschko).

[Esquire Dale]

Let's check whom you compare to Wlad's competition:

• Schmeling - a cruiser fight
• Braddock - a cruiser fight
• Conn (x2) - a cruiser fight (actually sub-cruiser)
  
• Walcott (x2) - a cruiser fight
• Lewis - a cruiser fight
• Galento - a 79-26 featherfist
• Levinsky - a cruiser fight
• Farr - a 81-30 featherfist
• Uzcudun - a 50-17 featherfist
• Sharkey - a cruiser fight
• Bivins - a cruiser fight

DONT EVER COMPARE these opponents to the opponents of Klitschko.

Compare Joe Louis with David Haye or with Juan Carlos Gomez, not with Klitschko.

And too bad that the 2 heavies left (Max Baer 68-13 and Primo Carnera 89-14) were also not involved in a heavyweight fight with Joe Louis, since Louis himself was below 200.


Unfortunately for you, I ACTUALLY CHECKED the FACTUAL RECORDs.


Yes, Holmes and Tyson you can compare indeed to Klitschko. They are real heavyweight ATGs.


Nonsense, and it won't get any truer by repeating it.

There has been not a worse HW era than Marciano's era and before. Now we have one of the best if not the best heavyweight era except that US boxers are exposed to global fighters and the world title isn't a local US-internal contest anymore.

I obviously need to remind everyone that in the 70ies a guy with Parkinson (Ali) was fighting against a 6-0 bum for the unified world title. THAT's how bad it was in the 70ies.

In the 80ies a Larry Homes was fighting in world title fights that included opponents such as Leon Spinks (26-17), David Bey (18-11), Scott LeDoux (33-13), Lucien Rodriguez (33-12) and other bums.

In the 90ies a Evan Fields (current heavyweight record 24-10!) was fighting against a 36-22 guy (Bert Cooper) for the unified world title.

The 2000s compare pretty well to past eras. It's merely the US commentators who ***** around.

IN THE WHOLE 70ies Muhammad Ali scored 5 (FIVE) KOs against 200+lbs opponents within 12 rounds (average weight 215lbs). That's how crappy the golden age was.

HAHAHAHAH

AHAHHAHAAHAHAH

Rdiculous.

The best of your ridiculous wlad fanboy spew has been bolded.

How much ****ing bleach has this guy been drinking?

AHahahaha

Hey! You're a "featherfist!" You don't count! Aahah

"Ali's real record"

Ahahah, gold. Pure wlad fanboy gold.

All the heavyweights in this era are fat. That's why they weigh more. Durrr.
Depending on your height, the more u weigh as a heavyweight the more disadvantaged you are.

This guy must think butterbean was the greatest thing ever lived. AHAHAH

[knn]

HAHAHAHAH

AHAHHAHAAHAHAH

Your keyboard is broken.

Rdiculous.

The best of your ridiculous wlad fanboy spew has been bolded.

How much ****ing bleach has this guy been drinking?

AHahahaha

Do you actually have any counter-facts or do you merely felt an urge to post your favorite smilies and insults?

Hey! You're a "featherfist!" You don't count! Aahah

I didn't exclude featherfists. If I would (e.g. Frazier, heavyweight KOratio like Chris Byrd) then Ali's record would even look worse.

Ahahah, gold. Pure wlad fanboy gold.

Already prepare yourself. Because my post (which is solely based on facts) will be the predominant opinion in a few years.

All the heavyweights in this era are fat. That's why they weigh more. Durrr.

You mean you want to make a new division that doesn't go by weight but by "athleticity"? A true reformer you are. Do you want to be in the committee that inspects male boxers for muscle and fat tissues? You can tell us, Dale. Since you consider Wlad your fat ***** ("Wladimir K is as much of a fat bum", "Wladimir K is a total *****") you surely would like to inspect every corner of his body whether he meets your fat-*****-standards.

Is that Tyson with an animal in your avatar? Anything else you want to tell us, Dale?

Depending on your height, the more u weigh as a heavyweight the more disadvantaged you are.

Nice theory you have there. You should really make a proposal to the governing bodies about your ideas for new divisions (The muscle-to-fat-ratio-division). They'll surely look into it.

This guy must think butterbean was the greatest thing ever lived. AHAHAH

You keyboard is still broken.

[knn]

Numerically an ATG Heavyweight

Indeed.

Numerically Muhammad Ali is a heavyweight ATG. Once you start to dissect his wins (gift decisions, half-blind dwarfs, cruisers, gun-shots, see my sig) his resume falls apart.

Oh, wait, you weren't talking about Muhammad? Strange, I had the feeling you were.

[Esquire Dale]

Your keyboard is broken.


Do you actually have any counter-facts or do you merely felt an urge to post your favorite smilies and insults?


I didn't exclude featherfists. If I would (e.g. Frazier, heavyweight KOratio like Chris Byrd) then Ali's record would even look worse.


Already prepare yourself. Because my post (which is solely based on facts) will be the predominant opinion in a few years.


You mean you want to make a new division that doesn't go by weight but by "athleticity"? A true reformer you are. Do you want to be in the committee that inspects male boxers for muscle and fat tissues? You can tell us, Dale. Since you consider Wlad your fat ***** ("Wladimir K is as much of a fat bum", "Wladimir K is a total *****") you surely would like to inspect every corner of his body whether he meets your fat-*****-standards.

Is that Tyson with an animal in your avatar? Anything else you want to tell us, Dale?


Nice theory you have there. You should really make a proposal to the governing bodies about your ideas for new divisions (The muscle-to-fat-ratio-division). They'll surely look into it.


You keyboard is still broken.

It doesn't take somebody to debunk your hideously diabolical claims for everybody to see you're a complete idiot. The only person gaining anything from replying to your garbage with "counter facts" is you.

And frankly I don't give two ****s about setting some completely deluded idiot wannabe boxing critic (who obviously thinks he's some kinda "leet internet" badass; quoting like no tommorow and throwing in insults with his big logix intraweb assualt. Real nerdy.). straight on how heavyweight boxing works. I just don't care enough about you.

You're not logged into World of Warcraft anymore mate. People wont think you're cool for sporting a pompous nerd attitude when replying to people.

Anyone who knows boxing knows you're wrong and ******. Just like your attempt to prove Klitschko isn't just a bumhunter who's been KO'd three times like a *****. (Nice Karma btw, seems your fellow boxing fans agree with what you have to say.)

Just remember to be open about your views that Klitschko is better than Ali. It's good if people realize you're a ****** sooner rather than later.

Around 220lbs is the perfect weight for most heavyweights to maintain speed, power and endurance.

Perfect example of this is lennox lewis. Weighed around 220 in his prime. Against Vitali he was 248 and had obviously lost tons of endurance, and speed.

N THE WHOLE 70ies Muhammad Ali scored 5 (FIVE) KOs against 200+lbs opponents within 12 rounds (average weight 215lbs). That's how crappy the golden age was.

What an absolute testament to how feeble your boxing knowledge is.

Boxing is not about knockouts. Ali was never a knockout artist.

I mean it's so horrible to actually contemplate somebody truely believes what it is I'm seeing on my computer screen.

I'm curious as to see what kind of person you are in RL, knn.

My suggestion for you is to go to MMA.

[knn]

It doesn't take somebody to debunk your hideously diabolical claims for everybody to see you're a complete idiot.

The only problem is: There is no claim of mine to "debunk". I state mere facts, because people obviously forgot what a crap the 70ies really were, e.g. a boxer with Parkinson fighting against a 6-0 bum for the unified titles.

And frankly I don't give two ****s about setting some completely deluded idiot

Typical answer of 70ies-delusionists: "I don't give a damn about your facts".

You are free to stay in fantasy land.

Anyone who knows boxing knows you're wrong and ******.

Wow, now I am convinced that I was wrong. Because "anyone who knows boxing knows that I am wrong".

You know, that this is the MOST TYPICAL reply of Ali-fans? "You know nothing about boxing!", "Did you ever watched Ali fight?", "Noone who understand boxing agrees with you", "You are an idiot".

Ali fans are so predictable.

AND YET the only thing that is always missing is actually A FACTUAL or VISIBLE PROOF how superior Ali was. Name the fight of Ali that impressed you the most (but don't mention any cruiser opponents or any opponents I have in my sig).

Read also
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...26#post5553426

Just like your attempt to prove Klitschko isn't just a bumhunter who's been KO'd three times like a *****.

There you mention that b-word again. Do you need a friend?

(Nice Karma btw, seems your fellow boxing fans agree with what you have to say.)

Most agree. It's just that oasis_lad gave me -20000 or so. Just shows you how deep the delusion goes.

But obviously it's important to you to have an acceptable opinion.

Just remember to be open about your views that Klitschko is better than Ali.

Ali is far better than Klitschko ... in fantasy land.

Around 220lbs is the perfect weight for most heavyweights to maintain speed, power and endurance.

Are you a trainer? Hey, wait a sec, aren't you just 17 years or so? Did _YOU_ actually watch Ali fight?

Perfect example of this is lennox lewis. Weighed around 220 in his prime.

....and was hated while active.

Against Vitali he was 248 and had obviously lost tons of endurance, and speed.

So 248 is the best weight?

Boxing is not about knockouts.

OH NOW IT'S NOT ABOUT KOs but just a few sentences ago you write about Klitschko "been KO'd three times like a *****." Look, who's talking, hater. Why do nearly all Ali fans show their ugly hater face within a few sentences?

And by the way: That is also another typical statement of Ali fans "Boxing is not about KOs, it's about heart" or "Ali had greater ringmanship" or similar nonsense. I never saw "Heart" on scorecards and there is no "Winner by Ringmanship".

[Jim Jeffries]

But his best win is Chris Byrd and he was KOed 3 times...

Numerically an ATG Heavyweight, substance wise no. But there's still time for him to earn making the top 30.

Please tell me 30 HWs greater than Wlad, right now.

And who's the guy claiming Lennox Lewis was 220 in his prime?

[Roger Mellie]

Wlad is the best of his era....shame about the era.