Ali`s Prime!

[MarkScott]

Ali in 67 had the movement and the power and punching speed. peaked was 67

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Gans-Biogr...1918984&sr=1-1

[StarshipTrooper]

When one is talking about one`s prime, he is probably talking about the age when the fighter showed his best qualities, and was a "complete" fighter.

As many recognize Ali as the greatest Heavyweight, and sometimes a greatest boxer of all time, i want to know which Ali are we actually talking about?

I think it would be fair to distinguish, so-to-say the "early" Ali - the one who fought in late sixties, and the "late" Ali - middle seventies...

Who was a better fighter, if not taking to consideration the opposition and achievements...

There is hardly a man on the planet who doesn`t know his "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee". This is the "early" Ali. He had, arguably, the best moving speed of all Heavyweights, incredible hand speed, nice reflexes and good defense which was based on those. He had pretty good punching power, though it was a little bit overrated due to his numerous TKO stoppages and "KO" of Liston in the rematch...
He had plenty of those incredible qualities, BUT!!! He was, like, knocked out by Henry Cooper, and, arguably, only his corner helped him to survive that fight... The guy didn`t have a strong chin! What could possibly such fighters like Frazier or Shavers do to him... Shouldn`t even mention Foreman here...
And he didn`t survive the wars during his first championship, his durability could be questioned...

Then, after a three-year layoff another Ali returned... Many of his fans like to generalize and say that he had lost SPEED. Though it is quite wrong in my opinion. He became slower, in the moving aspect, but his hand speed hardly changed. It still was incredibly fast. As his reflexes and movement speed lowered somewhat, i think he gained other qualities which made him one of the best heavyweight boxers ever. Those were:
1 Rock solid chin. He was capable of surviving flurries of the guys like Frazier, Shavers, Foreman and so on... After that crushing knock down in 15th round of first Frazier fight, he was getting up at once, and then survived the whole round... Could young Ali do that? I doubt...
2 Incredible durability end endurance... He could take numerous shots to the body, fight for fifteen hard rounds in incredible heat and then come back... When i was watching the "Thrilla" i was like O_o when i saw him coming back in the later rounds... Could young Ali survive such Wars and come back? ...


So as for me, the "prime" of one of the most recognizable boxers of all time, is pretty hard to be determined. How do you think? /discuss

P.S. I`m sorry for numerous mistakes. It is hard for a Ukrainian guy to write so much...And sorry if i doubled someone`s thread... "Search" didn`t help

I think it's fair to say that Ali didn't develope the chin or his ability to take punishment in his post-prime; rather these things were revealed post-prime. You simply didn't get to see it during his prime years because he was so good at avoiding punishment then.

Ali was able to adapt his way of fighting post-exhile to account for the fact that his reflexes were slipping and he could no longer dance for 15 rounds non-stop. It was either change what he did to in response to the changes in his own body or stay retired. This sets him apart from say Roy Jones wo tried to fight like he still had the reflexes of his younger self and paid the price for it. While all fighters to some degree rely on their reflexes and their transition from prime to past-prime can traced to when their reflexes start to slow, fighters such as Ali and Jones relied almost entirely on their reflexes in their respective primes and were at the greatest risk when those reflexes started to deteriorate. Ali found a new way to fight, Jones did not.

Poet

[res]

I think it's fair to say that Ali didn't develope the chin or his ability to take punishment in his post-prime; rather these things were revealed post-prime. You simply didn't get to see it during his prime years because he was so good at avoiding punishment then.

Ali was able to adapt his way of fighting post-exhile to account for the fact that his reflexes were slipping and he could no longer dance for 15 rounds non-stop. It was either change what he did to in response to the changes in his own body or stay retired. This sets him apart from say Roy Jones wo tried to fight like he still had the reflexes of his younger self and paid the price for it. While all fighters to some degree rely on their reflexes and their transition from prime to past-prime can traced to when their reflexes start to slow, fighters such as Ali and Jones relied almost entirely on their reflexes in their respective primes and were at the greatest risk when those reflexes started to deteriorate. Ali found a new way to fight, Jones did not.

Poet

I guess he is referring to the Cooper and Banks knock downs.

[Lacrimosa]

Wow!... Something that was so "evident" to me, seems to be a complete nonsense to the others

Keep discussing...