The king of middleweight division!

[jabsRstiff]

Easily Sugar Ray Robinson. Look at his wins. He beat Jake Lamotta 5 times, beat Kid Gavilan, Randy Turpin, Carmen Basilio, Gene Fullmer. I believe he was champ 5 times. The man was unbeatable in his prime. Most complete fighter ever.

Yeah....but he was NOT in his prime at middleweight....
& nor was he unbeatable there.
One of the reasons he won the crown so much in that division, is because he LOST it a few times (Fullmer, Turpin, & Basilio).

He's the greatest fighter ever, but he is not the best middleweight ever.

[Mr. Ryan]

Yeah....but he was NOT in his prime at middleweight....
& nor was he unbeatable there.
One of the reasons he won the crown so much in that division, is because he LOST it a few times (Fullmer, Turpin, & Basilio).

He's the greatest fighter ever, but he is not the best middleweight ever.

True. If you want dominance, how about Hagler? Hopkins is dominant, but thats mainly because of the lack of worthy opposition. But he would be competitive against Hopkins, until Hagler overwhelmed him in the 6th.

[cple]

Yeah....but he was NOT in his prime at middleweight....
& nor was he unbeatable there.
One of the reasons he won the crown so much in that division, is because he LOST it a few times (Fullmer, Turpin, & Basilio).

He's the greatest fighter ever, but he is not the best middleweight ever.

True, Robinson was not in his prime at middleweight, but i'd still pick the best 160 pound version of Ray to beat most middleweights.

[Yogi]

True, Robinson was not in his prime at middleweight, but i'd still pick the best 160 pound version of Ray to beat most middleweights.

Actually it's my opinion that if all the middleweights that I've seen had fought in a round-robin tournamanet against each other at their very best, the best version of Robinson at this weight, would be the one whose record would look the most impressive against all others, when it's all said and done.

Not including Greb, whose resume and accounts of his talents are very, very impressive, the four most talented middleweights in history that I've had the pleasure of seeing with my own eyes would be; Robinson, Monzon, Hagler and Marcel Cerdan (whose very underated at times, but who'd have the overall talent to compete on pretty even terms with the other three greats that I've named).

[phallus]

True, Robinson was not in his prime at middleweight, but i'd still pick the best 160 pound version of Ray to beat most middleweights.

i think Harry Greb beats Robinson, Greb's swarming attack was made to destroy a pure boxer like Robinson

[cple]

Actually it's my opinion that if all the middleweights that I've seen had fought in a round-robin tournamanet against each other at their very best, the best version of Robinson at this weight, would be the one whose record would look the most impressive against all others, when it's all said and done.

Not including Greb, whose resume and accounts of his talents are very, very impressive, the four most talented middleweights in history that I've had the pleasure of seeing with my own eyes would be; Robinson, Monzon, Hagler and Marcel Cerdan (whose very underated at times, but who'd have the overall talent to compete on pretty even terms with the other three greats that I've named).

Marcel is another fighter who was probably at his best welterweight, but his skills were so immense that he could compete/dominate at middleweight even when he wasn't at his peak. From what i've seen of him, he had quick hands, decent power, and very good boxing skill.

I find it somewhat difficult to rank Cerdan all-time. His opposition wasn't too outstanding, but his talent so great that you could tell he was an all-time great just by watching him.

[Yogi]

Marcel is another fighter who was probably at his best welterweight, but his skills were so immense that he could compete/dominate at middleweight even when he wasn't at his peak. From what i've seen of him, he had quick hands, decent power, and very good boxing skill.

I find it somewhat difficult to rank Cerdan all-time. His opposition wasn't too outstanding, but his talent so great that you could tell he was an all-time great just by watching him.

That is the common opinion in regards to Cerdan being even better at welterweight, although I don't believe any footage of him exists from those days, so it's hard to tell for sure.

I have quite a bit of footage of him as a middleweight though, and with the exception of the few minutes that's available of the LaMotta fight (where he was fighting with basically one arm), he's very impressive in each of the other ones (Zale, **** Turpin, and a few other European middleweights of that time).

Like you say, his resume doesn't quite match up with some of the other greats at this weight. But in my opinion, I think the great talent he showed at 160 is more than enough to convince me that he deserves a spot in my all-time top 10 at this weight, and I'm more than comfortable ranking him in that very select group (based on both talent and accomplishments).

[KJ]

Hagler got my vote.

[Ivansmamma]

Roy Jones, Ray Robinson and Hagler.

[xoalvinox]

If only Roy would have stayed. He would have been great