The BoxingScene History Section Consensus Heavyweight Rankings

[Steak]

1. Muhammed Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Sonny Liston
6. George Foreman
7. Joe Frazier
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Floyd Patterson
11. Jack Johnson
12. Mike Tyson
13. Harry Wills
14. Ken Norton
15. Ezzard Charles

this is about the best list I can come up with. probably the toughest part was rating George Foreman. he was on the top for such a short time and also had that fairly bad loss to Young, but during that time he really wrecked and got impressive, dominant wins. throw in the fact that he came back to get wins and have good showings in his 40s and he really throws me off badly.

Holyfield also threw me off, for similiar reasons, and I almost feel like I put him too high...but at the same time, he has so many good wins that it feels unfair to lower him that much.

other than 6-8, I feel confident in that list, other than I kind of want to exchange one of the bottom 2 guys for Schmelling.

EDIT: I actually did look back and decide to drop Holyfield a little bit. His wins over Foreman and Holmes were still really good, but he didnt beat them quite as dominantly as he should have. I still find those three hard to rank, but I feel better putting Holyfield down, since he was a little less consistant in his career than Foreman and Frazier.

I also moved Norton up one, because after all, the guy arguably has two wins over Ali, a win over Jimmy Young, win over Quarry and arguably beat Holmes. he fell apart against certain fighters, but his wins were good enough to make up for that.
Charles just didnt have a long career at Heavy before he ended up past his best.

[Steak]

** Longevity? The Holy One has less bouts than Wlad, so exactly what kind of longevity are you talking of?

I clearly said it in my post. the guy was still beating top level fighters into his 40s, and should have a win over Valuev, who was top 5 I believe. Not many fighters can pull that off, and Im amazed Holyfield still can after all the wars hes been in in his career.
The man has been fighting pro for 24 years, after moving up a weight class. How is that possibly not longevity?

Shot at 40? Since turning 36 he's 6-7-2, 2 KO overall, 1-5-2, 0 KO in title fights, and last beat a top 10 fighter, oh, around age 39 when he butted Rahman to a technical decision more than 7 yrs ago.

How on earth is he getting robbed when clearly he couldn't smush a fly with a jackhammer? How many fighters earn what he does to be a punching bag? If anything younger heavies are being robbed of opportunities to fight for a titles that he's been propped up in.

are you really and honestly trying to tell me you didnt think he beat Valuev? That fight certainly isnt a career defining fight...but for someone at 46 to get that kind of a win is worth noting, at least.

Joe Mesi, a perfect record and zer0 title shots, Larry Donald, one title shot. Tony Thompson, one title shot. Ike Ibeachui, zer0 title shots in spite of a perfect record, David Tua, one title shot, JCGomez, one title shot, Danny Williams, one title shot, Matt Skelton, one title shot, Dominick Guinn, zer0 title shots, Michael Grant, one title shot, Lance Whitaker, zer0 title shots, Bert Cooper, one title shot, Vaughn Bean, one title shot, Alex Stewert, zer0 title shots, Fres Oquendo, one title shot, Lou Sarvarse, zer0 title shots, Jeremy Bates and Vince Maddalone, zer00 title shots, Povetkin, zer0 title shots, Arreola, zer0 title shots, Albert Sosnowski, zer0 title shots and on.

Am I supposed to feel bad for a guy who's won exactly 1 of his 8 title shots in this period and earned tens of millions of dollars to lose?

I'll vote for the guy in the HOF when his name first comes up, but please, let's not get carried away with nonsense over him. He ain't in the elite great category, not even close. Reminds me a bit of Jack Sharkey's career, sort of all over the map he was.

what is all this garbage? no really, what is this mess? its not Holyfield's fault he got that many title shots, and the guy was obviously past prime the whole time.

seriously, comparing Sharkey to Evander Holyfield? you must be out of your mind. the guy shouldnt have even won the heavyweight title, since he won it via awful robbery in the first place.

1. Jack Johnson
2. Jim Jeffries
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. Jack Dempsey
5. James J. Corbett
6. Joe Louis
7. Sam Langford
8. Gene Tunney
9. Max Schmeling
10. Rocky Marciano.
11. John L Sullivan
12. Ezzard Charles
13. George Foreman
14. Peter Jackson
15 Wlad Klitschko

are you being at all serious posting this list? I doubt it, but Ill address it anyway. this is just awful, for multiple reasons. the most obvious of which is not having Muhammad Ali even in the top 15.

[Kid McCoy]

1. Jack Johnson
2. Jim Jeffries
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. Jack Dempsey
5. James J. Corbett
6. Joe Louis
7. Sam Langford
8. Gene Tunney
9. Max Schmeling
10. Rocky Marciano.

That list looks very familiar...

[StarshipTrooper]

That list looks very familiar...

He probably stole it from Nat Fleischer.

Poet

[LondonRingRules]

I clearly said it in my post. the guy was still beating top level fighters into his 40s, and should have a win over Valuev, who was top 5 I believe. Not many fighters can pull that off, and Im amazed Holyfield still can after all the wars hes been in in his career.

** Oh come now, I'm older than the Holy One, and I could do a softshoe for 12 three minute intervals quite easily and then leap in with a missed punch and be happy to collect whatever he got.

I thought he got booted out of Dancing with the stars any way. The ******ns with a major assist from DKing Promotions have robbed his grave and propped him up for sport and legacy. They aren't allowed to hit him as anyone reviewing his last two fights can see. Got to keep him "fresh" for White Tyson who wants his fair share yet.

You want to see what a true mid 40s champ can do I suggest you watch the pounding Big George gives Holy One, forcing him to hang on for dear life the last 3 rounds. Do you ever scream about Big George being robbed? Even Big Pants Lar made himself tougher against the Holy One in spite of being so weak he used the ropes like stroke victims use walkers to ambulate.

You dears should be screaming for his retirement so you won't have to listen to me eviscerate his career. Guy is ruining his career, his legacy, his integrity, and his health because he's surrounded by enablers like all of you.

I saw it with Ali, but was too young and lacked a platform to protest the way they kept him propped up for years. Have you seen him lately? He's not even a shell any more.

And you're gonna tell me Holy One beats Valuev by landing, what, 10 punches in a 20 punch fight? For 1/2 of 1/4th of a title belt? That's a freakin' 1/8th share of a Don King belt that you want to keep him propped up for in a country that doesn't even have a boxing commission?

I swear, you and Toney fans. Put these two in the ring for the rematch and you'd get a 10 punch fight to argue about with more action goin' on in the popcorn concessions

[Steak]

** Oh come now, I'm older than the Holy One, and I could do a softshoe for 12 three minute intervals quite easily and then leap in with a missed punch and be happy to collect whatever he got.

I thought he got booted out of Dancing with the stars any way. The ******ns with a major assist from DKing Promotions have robbed his grave and propped him up for sport and legacy. They aren't allowed to hit him as anyone reviewing his last two fights can see. Got to keep him "fresh" for White Tyson who wants his fair share yet.

You want to see what a true mid 40s champ can do I suggest you watch the pounding Big George gives Holy One, forcing him to hang on for dear life the last 3 rounds. Do you ever scream about Big George being robbed? Even Big Pants Lar made himself tougher against the Holy One in spite of being so weak he used the ropes like stroke victims use walkers to ambulate.

You dears should be screaming for his retirement so you won't have to listen to me eviscerate his career. Guy is ruining his career, his legacy, his integrity, and his health because he's surrounded by enablers like all of you.

I saw it with Ali, but was too young and lacked a platform to protest the way they kept him propped up for years. Have you seen him lately? He's not even a shell any more.

And you're gonna tell me Holy One beats Valuev by landing, what, 10 punches in a 20 punch fight? For 1/2 of 1/4th of a title belt? That's a freakin' 1/8th share of a Don King belt that you want to keep him propped up for in a country that doesn't even have a boxing commission?

I swear, you and Toney fans. Put these two in the ring for the rematch and you'd get a 10 punch fight to argue about with more action goin' on in the popcorn concessions

interesting, so lets go over what Ive learned from your post.

1. Anyone could have beaten Valuev
2. George Foreman was robbed against Holyfield
3. Muhammad Ali is not a top 15 Heavyweight
4. Holyfield was not robbed against Valuev

I cant really say I respect your opinion that much.

but I do agree with you that Holyfield should have retired long ago. the guy took way too much punishment throughout his career, and theres no point in him being around.

[warp1432]

Are you seriously trying to compare Holyfield-Valuev to Foreman-Holyfield?

Holyfield might have not landed much, but he clearly outlanded Valuev and scored the cleaner punchers too.

[StarshipTrooper]

interesting, so lets go over what Ive learned from your post.

1. Anyone could have beaten Valuev
2. George Foreman was robbed against Holyfield
3. Muhammad Ali is not a top 15 Heavyweight
4. Holyfield was not robbed against Valuev

I cant really say I respect your opinion that much.

but I do agree with you that Holyfield should have retired long ago. the guy took way too much punishment throughout his career, and theres no point in him being around.

Hey, let him rant! He discredits himself everytime he starts clacking away at the keyboard.

Poet

[LondonRingRules]

and Jack Johnson is an elite? the guy hit the canvas against a middleweight, not even a blown up middleweight..a legit middleweight! Johnson has a flip flopping record with random losses popping up even during his prime, you can't say the same about Holyfield. Then if you are going to rip on Holyfield's last few contending years..look at Johnson's once again..littered with losses.

he's the guy you rate so highly.

** Hey, now, I ain't the one bellyaching about JJ being underrated.

This ain't about me, it's about consensus. I'm just a worker ant rolling my sayso to construct a mighty list. Maybe I'm as screwed up as you guys are, ringing up the list with my favored fighters, records be damned, did you ever think?

Or maybe I'm just old school with an obvious preference for guys in 2-4 oz gloves in long rounds, with 6oz gloved era fighters next, and the 10oz era last.

Or maybe I'm just a guy who took a consensus from reporters who rated fighters that they had seen. These pioneers started dying out around Ali's era. They didn't rate Ali, and since moderns claim he's the best then if follows that no fighter after him can be ranked higher.

But, hey, I fudged a little with Big George and Wlad, so forgive me Charlie Rose.

But enough of me. Imagine poor Hawk has got a bellyful of me these few short days to last him until they nail his coffin shut.

I'm just an humble servant of the board providing the necessities to build a Mighty List of consensus.

[ßringer]

Are you seriously trying to compare Holyfield-Valuev to Foreman-Holyfield?

Holyfield might have not landed much, but he clearly outlanded Valuev and scored the cleaner punchers too.

I agree with this.

Granted the Holyfield/Valuev fight was about as entertaining as watching C-SPAN. But in a fight with little to no action, the decision should go to the man who at least lands more punches. Should being the key word, nothing is a given, in this sport.