Ali Frazier trilogy- your verdict

[hayZ]

lmao HOW can you say Frazier won the 2nd and 3rd fight?

2nd fight he did nothing, Ali just kept him at bay with the jab and kept on tying him up and third fight Ali was landing some vicious accurate punches towards the end, and they had to stop it because Ali destroyed Joe's face.

THEY STOPPED THE LAST FIGHT, so no matter what Ali WON that and the 2nd fight was awful but Ali triumphed, everyone will tell you that.

Stop being such a fanboy and get a grip.

[Hawkins]

** Gots to credit you with coming back with some really good whoppers.

Good whoppers?? Pot calling the kettle black is it???

The blatant 'whopper' in your post is, essentially, that it's a myth that Ali used his legs and quickness as a primary means of defense. I guess from judging that you've seen Ali fights that no one else has? The truth is, no matter how you try to spin it, is that before his unjust exile his defense was speed, quickness and reflexes.

Ali kept his hands low and used his speed and reflexes to get himself out of range of his opponents. It wasn't until after he returned that we learned he had a chin of cast iron..why? because his legs weren't the same..it was necessity. How you can refute this is beyond me but you do and always have....

Now, continue on with your propaganda because no matter what anyone says your one-man crusade to attempt to discredit Ali will roll on.

[LondonRingRules]

Good whoppers?? Pot calling the kettle black is it???

The blatant 'whopper' in your post is, essentially, that it's a myth that Ali used his legs and quickness as a primary means of defense. I guess from judging that you've seen Ali fights that no one else has? The truth is, no matter how you try to spin it, is that before his unjust exile his defense was speed, quickness and reflexes.

Ali kept his hands low and used his speed and reflexes to get himself out of range of his opponents. It wasn't until after he returned that we learned he had a chin of cast iron..why? because his legs weren't the same..it was necessity. How you can refute this is beyond me but you do and always have....

** Yeah, we had a recent newbie on here full of vim, vigour, and the fires of righteousness. Then I ran him off with a simple request, just provide examples. He vaporized faster than Dracula seeing a cross of garlic.

So there it is, the gauntlet tossed: Where are the examples where Ali used his legs to win fights other than the example I provided in the first Liston fight?

He always held his hands low and used speedy hands and reflexes to win fights whether or not on the move in or out of his prime, but you've proven to be a "leg" man, so we expect some good prime "leg" snapshots.

[Hawkins]

** Yeah, we had a recent newbie on here full of vim, vigour, and the fires of righteousness. Then I ran him off with a simple request, just provide examples. He vaporized faster than Dracula seeing a cross of garlic.

So there it is, the gauntlet tossed: Where are the examples where Ali used his legs to win fights other than the example I provided in the first Liston fight?

He always held his hands low and used speedy hands and reflexes to win fights whether or not on the move in or out of his prime, but you've proven to be a "leg" man, so we expect some good prime "leg" snapshots.

So let me get this straight, you vehemently deny that Ali used his ability to quickly get in and back out of range as his primary defense before his exile? I don't see how you can sit there and type this drivel.

The only reason we ever got to see Ali's ability to repeatedly take hard shots is because his legs were diminished and his greatest defensive asset was tremendously hindered so falling back on his whiskers was a necessity.

Example of Ali's use of legs : The first Liston fight, Cleveland Willams, Ernie Terrell and Floyd Patterson are prime examples.

[LondonRingRules]

So let me get this straight, you vehemently deny that Ali used his ability to quickly get in and back out of range as his primary defense before his exile? I don't see how you can sit there and type this drivel.

The only reason we ever got to see Ali's ability to repeatedly take hard shots is because his legs were diminished and his greatest defensive asset was tremendously hindered so falling back on his whiskers was a necessity.

Example of Ali's use of legs : The first Liston fight, Cleveland Willams, Ernie Terrell and Floyd Patterson are prime examples.

** Snickers galore. Already gave the Liston fight as the single example.

Cleve and Floyd were two sick old men pulled off hospital gurneys for their fights. The only threat they represented was to roosting pidgeons when they fell.

Terrell was fought primarily in the trenches as a brawl or at ring center after Terrell was blinded on the ropes. Ernie made himself useful, but was hardly a dynamic offensive threat going into the fight healthy. What grade are you in not to have seen or known of these conditions?

You've obviously never seen any footage of Ali prior to Liston or you would know his style was primarily controlling space in the pocket and looking to outbox or outslug his man, not running amok in the ring popping off missed jabs shouting, "What's my name fool?" and other assorted balderdash nincompoops make up about him.

It's like saying SRLeonard's bolo punches were the main part of of his offensive arsenal. People just imagine silly stuff because it's easier than actually figuring out what's going on in the ring, Leonard and Ali putting on a show.

[Hawkins]

** Snickers galore. Already gave the Liston fight as the single example.

Cleve and Floyd were two sick old men pulled off hospital gurneys for their fights. The only threat they represented was to roosting pidgeons when they fell.

Terrell was fought primarily in the trenches as a brawl or at ring center after Terrell was blinded on the ropes. Ernie made himself useful, but was hardly a dynamic offensive threat going into the fight healthy. What grade are you in not to have seen or known of these conditions?

You've obviously never seen any footage of Ali prior to Liston or you would know his style was primarily controlling space in the pocket and looking to outbox or outslug his man, not running amok in the ring popping off missed jabs shouting, "What's my name fool?" and other assorted balderdash nincompoops make up about him.

It's like saying SRLeonard's bolo punches were the main part of of his offensive arsenal. People just imagine silly stuff because it's easier than actually figuring out what's going on in the ring, Leonard and Ali putting on a show.

Anywhere in my post did I say he was "running amok" ? You seem to constantly miss the point. Ali was always moving...engage and move...engage and move. His legs and ability to move out of range was his DEFENSE. Clearly you've never seen the Terrell fight..he was moving constantly...lateral movement was a huge component for Ali.

How in the hell can you defute that? Please tell me. Using your legs doesnt mean you run around the ring like a chicken with its head severed..it means lateral moving and not creating a stationary target thus making it harder for your opponent to engage allowing you to control the fight. Pre-exile Ali is a prime example of this type of strategy.

Your contempt for Ali knows no bounds. Asinine statement after asinine statement.

[StarshipTrooper]

Anywhere in my post did I say he was "running amok" ? You seem to constantly miss the point. Ali was always moving...engage and move...engage and move. His legs and ability to move out of range was his DEFENSE. Clearly you've never seen the Terrell fight..he was moving constantly...lateral movement was a huge component for Ali.

How in the hell can you defute that? Please tell me. Using your legs doesnt mean you run around the ring like a chicken with its head severed..it means lateral moving and not creating a stationary target thus making it harder for your opponent to engage allowing you to control the fight. Pre-exile Ali is a prime example of this type of strategy.

Your contempt for Ali knows no bounds. Asinine statement after asinine statement.

Classic examples of how personal hatred clouds the thinking isn't it? You should check out his posts on Jack Johnson too and I've heard tell he's been taking shots at Larry Holmes as well!

Poet

[LondonRingRules]

Anywhere in my post did I say he was "running amok" ? You seem to constantly miss the point. Ali was always moving...engage and move...engage and move. His legs and ability to move out of range was his DEFENSE. Clearly you've never seen the Terrell fight..he was moving constantly...lateral movement was a huge component for Ali.

How in the hell can you defute that? Please tell me. Using your legs doesnt mean you run around the ring like a chicken with its head severed..it means lateral moving and not creating a stationary target thus making it harder for your opponent to engage allowing you to control the fight. Pre-exile Ali is a prime example of this type of strategy.

Your contempt for Ali knows no bounds. Asinine statement after asinine statement.

** My "contempt" is actually a counter to the hormones of your hysteria and a challenge to your manhood it appears.

Every boxer type who's ever lived strives to control space with footwork, not just Ali. What was different from the Liston Ali was his excessive run and jab style that fighters in every gym around the world now break out for some sport every day.

Ali never lost the ability to control space with footwork in his comeback, but he did lose the natural enthusiasm of youth for the showy excessive displays of footwork, which was a good thing as they don't win points, ie the Folley fight, and in a tough fight it saps energy, ie, the first Liston fight when Ali elects to abandon the footwork to stay close in and sharpshoot from range.

Well, you've got the resident 8th grade slappee in your corner now. Funny stuff how me claiming that Ali's prevalent early career style was standing in the pocket to pick and trade somehow makes me a hater. You dears are an absolute hoot in your quest to hammer the reality of Ali into your fanciful imaginings like some two year old hammering square blocks into the round holes.

Yeah, Ali had to break out and flee for the hills save his life against little brokeback Floyd and gutshot and fresh off the gurney Williams.

Mighty strange threats to Ali in your worlds, enough that a 2 yr old could be a major threat to your hero.

[TheGreatA]

I thought the second fight was quite close. It wasn't that dull in my opinion despite excessive holding by Ali (some critics say he held over a hundred times).

The judges had it for Ali by close margins: 116-113, 116-112 and 115-114.

[Hawkins]

** My "contempt" is actually a counter to the hormones of your hysteria and a challenge to your manhood it appears.

Your contempt for Ali and your attempts to discredit him are well known, so don't hide behind any other...at least be honest about it.

Every boxer type who's ever lived strives to control space with footwork, not just Ali. What was different from the Liston Ali was his excessive run and jab style that fighters in every gym around the world now break out for some sport every day.

Ali never lost the ability to control space with footwork in his comeback, but he did lose the natural enthusiasm of youth for the showy excessive displays of footwork, which was a good thing as they don't win points, ie the Folley fight, and in a tough fight it saps energy, ie, the first Liston fight when Ali elects to abandon the footwork to stay close in and sharpshoot from range.

Well, you've got the resident 8th grade slappee in your corner now. Funny stuff how me claiming that Ali's prevalent early career style was standing in the pocket to pick and trade somehow makes me a hater. You dears are an absolute hoot in your quest to hammer the reality of Ali into your fanciful imaginings like some two year old hammering square blocks into the round holes.

Yeah, Ali had to break out and flee for the hills save his life against little brokeback Floyd and gutshot and fresh off the gurney Williams.

Mighty strange threats to Ali in your worlds, enough that a 2 yr old could be a major threat to your hero.

You show me one fight in Ali's pre-banishment days where he just completely stands and trades for any length of time without movement. You can't because his M.O. was to hit and move. For you to say otherwise is preposterous.

In his comeback his legs would tire to the point where he had to trade and take punches he wouldn't have before. The whole idea you are presenting is lacking because it goes against well known fact.