ATG Lists

[StarshipTrooper]

Some good list's there, which are never a easy thing to do and everyone will have there own opinion.

But i really do think Dwight Muhhamed Qawi, formally known as Dwight Braxton at least derserves a mention, on the nearly list at LHW.

He was WBC LHW champion, taking it off Matthew Saad Muhammad with a TKO win, he would defend it 4 times and would also defeat Muhammad again.

Before losing it to your number #5 choice Michael Spinks on UD.

He would then move up to cruiserweight and win the WBA title and make one defence of that against former Heavyweight champion Leon Spinks, stopping him in 6.

And then would lose his title in a true battle and one of the most excting and brutal fights of all time against Evander Holyfield, on a SD, in which alot of people thought he should of got.

After this his weight gained out of control, and he would go on to get stopped by Evander Holyfield and George Foreman, and challeged once more for the WBA 190 title getting beat on SD against Robert Daniels.


Great fighter in his prime.

Quite right, I must have been hurrying as I can's imagine not having Qawi in there SOMEWHERE.

Poet

[wmute]

Light-Heavyweights

ATGs

01. Ezzard Charles
02. Archie Moore
03. Gene Tunney
04. Bob Foster
05. Michael Spinks
06. Roy Jones Jr.
07. Billy Conn
08. John Henry Lewis
09.Tommy Loughran
10. Tommy Gibbons
11. Maxie Rosenbloom
12. Mauro Mina
13. Jack Dillon
14. Young Stribling


Some Near Greats (Alphabetical)

Jimmy Bivins
Eddie Booker
Georges Carpentier
Joe Choynski
Jack Delaney
Chris Ewbank
Tiger Jack Fox
Victor Galindez
Virgil Hill
Harold Johnson
Joe Knight
Battling Levinsky
Frankie Liles
Llloyd Marshall
Harry Matthews
Joey Maxim
Michael Moorer
Matthew Saad Muhammad
Kid Norfolk
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Willie Pastrano
Graciano Rocchiagiani
Antonio Tarver
**** Tiger
Jose Torres
Tommy Yarosz

Why do you rank Foster above Spinks?

[ßringer]

As with any list, I agree with some, not with others. Some of the ones I disagree with would be having Jermain Taylor in the "near" list for Middleweights, and putting Oscar De La Hoya and Shane Mosley on the list at Welterweight.

My heavyweights.......

1.) Joe Louis
2.) Muhammad Ali
3.) Larry Holmes
4.) Jack Johnson
5.) Jack Dempsey
6.) George Foreman
7.) Joe Frazier
8.) Rocky Marciano
9.) Lennox Lewis
10.) Evander Holyfield
11.) Mike Tyson

I have no argument whatsoever with your lists for Light Heavyweight or Middleweight. That's pretty spot on, at least from my perspective.

For Welterweights, I'd toss off Mosley, and De La Hoya, and replace them with others. Pernell Whitaker should definitely be on there.

I'll have to take further time to draw up my complete top 15 lists.

[wmute]

Middleweights

ATGs

01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Marvin Hagler
04. Stanley Ketchel
05. Bernard Hopkins
06. Charley Burley
07. Harry Greb
08. Jake LaMotta
09. Carlos Monzon
10. Tony Zale
11. Panama Joe Gans
12. Marcel Cerdan
13. Les Darcy
14. Mike Gibbons
15. Holman Williams
16. Mickey Walker
17. James Toney
18. Mike McCallum
19. Tommy Burns
20. Freddie Steele
21. Non Periel Jack Dempsey
22. Nino Benvenuti


Some Near Greats (Alphabetical)

George Abrams
Freddie Apostoli
Joey Archer
Nigel Benn
George Benton
Bennie Brisco
Lou Brouillard
Hank Casey
Cyrille Delanoit
Vince Dundee
Tiger Flowers
Gene Fullmer
Joey Giambra
Joey Giardello
Bert Lytell
Gerald McClellan
Terry Norris
Mike O'Dowd
Ken Overlin
Billy Papke
Dave Sands
Harry Smith
Jeff Smith
Jermain Taylor
Randy Turpin
Rodrigo Valdez
Teddy Yarosz
Winky Wright

Seriously??? say it was a mistake...

I didnt notice until bringer brought it up

[StarshipTrooper]

Why do you rank Foster above Spinks?

Foster was a beast at 175. Like Spinks, he was undefeated at that weight only losing to Heavyweights. Taking nothing away from Spinks, who's a favorite of mine, I just think Foster was a bit more dangerous.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Seriously??? say it was a mistake...

I didnt notice until bringer brought it up

Honestly I'm on the fence about how good Taylor really is and whether he's good enough to be considered a near-great or not. I put him in with the near-greats because I figured SOMEONE was going to ask if I didn't include him.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

As with any list, I agree with some, not with others. Some of the ones I disagree with would be having Jermain Taylor in the "near" list for Middleweights, and putting Oscar De La Hoya and Shane Mosley on the list at Welterweight.

My heavyweights.......

1.) Joe Louis
2.) Muhammad Ali
3.) Larry Holmes
4.) Jack Johnson
5.) Jack Dempsey
6.) George Foreman
7.) Joe Frazier
8.) Rocky Marciano
9.) Lennox Lewis
10.) Evander Holyfield
11.) Mike Tyson

I have no argument whatsoever with your lists for Light Heavyweight or Middleweight. That's pretty spot on, at least from my perspective.

For Welterweights, I'd toss off Mosley, and De La Hoya, and replace them with others. Pernell Whitaker should definitely be on there.

I'll have to take further time to draw up my complete top 15 lists.

You don't consider De La Hoya and Mosley ATGs? But Trinidad's okay on the list?

Pernell Whitaker was at his best at Lightweight and unless you're named Ray Robinson I only rate a fighter in ONE weight class.

Poet

[andrewcuff]

Good lists Poet, only one query. Wouldn't Mayweather be ranked as a featherweight rather than a welterweight? His best wins were at 130 and 135, after all?

[StarshipTrooper]

Good lists Poet, only one query. Wouldn't Mayweather be ranked as a featherweight rather than a welterweight? His best wins were at 130 and 135, after all?

Floyd won his first title in 1998 at Super-Featherweight over Genero Hernandez. Since I don't regard the "Super" and "Junior" divisions he grades up to the next highest legitimate division which is Lightweight. The problem is, Floyd spent a roughly equal emount of time at Junior-Welter which grades up to Welterweight. So I could have placed him at either Lightweight or Welterweight with Welter getting the nod because of his opponents there.

Poet

[ßringer]

You don't consider De La Hoya and Mosley ATGs? But Trinidad's okay on the list?

Pernell Whitaker was at his best at Lightweight and unless you're named Ray Robinson I only rate a fighter in ONE weight class.

Poet

From a technical aspect, I wouldn't put Trinidad on my list either. He was a very one dimensional fighter who relied on the power of his punch to win the day. Anytime he was up against an opponet who had solid boxing fundamentals he failed, and failed big time. (The Oscar robbery, Hopkins, Wright)

But from an accomplishment standpoint, I can't remove him. He is a 3 division World Champion with victories over some of the best of his era.

I wouldn't put De La Hoya on the list because he is notorious for dropping the ball in every big fight he's ever been in. Granted you can argue that he won the Trinidad fight and the Mosley rematch, as most people think he did (myself included). But on paper, and in the books, he lost, and that's where it really matters.

Mosley will forever be tainted by taking steroids.

And I'm not sure it's fair to only rate a guy in one weight class, unless his name is Ray Robinson. Granted Robinson was the greatest multiple weight class conquerer, but some other great fighters have dominated multiple divisions and should be judged according to merit in each class, not just their natural one.