Jack Johnson vs John Ruiz, an Era Check

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  • LondonRingRules
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    #1

    Jack Johnson vs John Ruiz, an Era Check

    Both notorious huggybear types, both up and down before winning their titles near the same age, both around the same height/reach.

    Let's match em up against each other's comp and see where it shakes out.

    Johnson vs Holy and Ruiz vs Burns: Holy was always weak against spoiler types and past his best, so I figure Johnson would pull out a close win. Little Tommy Burns lacks a single attribute to bother Ruiz in the manner he fought Johnson......Win/Win

    Johnson vs Holy and Ruiz vs Philly O'brien: Holy made an adjustment and arguably gets a draw, so I see nothing in Johnson to prevent this. O'brien also secured a draw, and with his elusive style in a 6 rd match, don't see how Ruiz could prevent it in spite of outweighing Philly by 70lbs, looking like a Valuev to Philly......Draw/Draw

    Oh boy, Johnson vs Johnson and Ruiz vs Ross: Kirk Johnson would've been the biggest, most talented heavy Jack ever faced, sporting 40 lbs over Jack. Jack is probably as strong as Ruiz, enough to spoil like Ruiz which caused a mental breakdown by Kirk, but I doubt he can take his punch, being KOed by Choynski/Haines and later by Willard, and Kirk did land some shots on Ruiz. Probably Ruiz KOs Ross who had no business in a title fight that Jack took a newspaper decision on...... JJohnson Lose/Ruiz Win.

    Johnson vs Jones and Ruiz vs Kaufman: Nothing in Johnson's career could ever prepare for Jones who is near Johnson's size. Figure Roy can pop from outside and cruise to an easy decision or even a KO since Ruiz was wobbled a couple of times. Ruiz would have 30lbs on Kaufman who was slow as mollasses, and probably gets KOed easily. Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

    Johnson vs Oquendo and Ruiz vs Ketchell: Fres a very clever boxer, but not enough size and power to keep Ruiz from tying him up and taking him out of his game. Figure Johnson could do the same, but take a decsion. Ruiz would have 70lbs on Ketchell who could come straight at him, getting KOed......Win/Win

    Johnson vs Golota and Ruiz vs Jeffries: Golota was robbed of his 3 KD and the scores outrageous. Too big and strong for Jack to tie up and don't figure Jack gets up from the 3rd KD. Ruiz would likely waltz ol' Jeff down a few rounds earlier. Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

    Johnson vs Toney and Ruiz vs Flynn: Toney suspended for steroid use and fight an NC. Not really a dime's worth of difference between Ruiz by punch stats. Figure Johnson won't be caught off balance like Ruiz and handles Toney with similar results. Ruiz walks down little Flynn with his 50 extra lbs KOing Fireman....Johnson NC/Ruiz Win

    Johnson vs Valuev and Ruiz vs Battling Jim Johnson: Don't see Johnson doing anymore but soiling hisself. Ruiz walks down BJ who had a pitiable record......Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

    Johnson v Chagaev and Ruiz v Moran: Johnson gives a decent account vs Moran, the only legit prime heavy he has a win over. Ruiz very competitive against Chagaev, so I figure it's a similar bout with the win to Chagaev. Figure Ruiz can also survive Moran's work rate with a similar result......Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

    Finally last title bout for both, Johnson vs Valuev and Ruiz vs Willard: Figure Johnson clever enough to sport a pair of Depends this time, and figure Willard can do the same to Ruiz. Lose/Lose.

    Veeeeeeeirely strange the similarities in their careers and styles with Ruiz having an edge in spite of getting nowhere near a top 30 heavy list.

    JJ's title record is 7-1-2, and Ruiz is 4-4-1, 1 NC. Swapped out, I have JJ at 2-6-1, 1 NC and Ruiz at 8-1-1.

    Now, maybe an argument could be made Johnson wins a couple more of those bouts, but the sheer youth, size, and strength Ruiz faced dwarfs that of Johnson. Johnson doesn't even have the HOF edge, 4-4 HOF bouts, but Ruiz's smallest HOF fighter near the largest size of fighter Johnson ever faced. In most of these swaps Ruiz has a Valuev size advantage over Jack's little challengers.

    What sayeth you?
  • BattlingNelson
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    #2
    Pretty interesting and nicely thought out subject and post.

    I think you need to add the element of needle in to the equation. Johnson was an expert in needling his opponents. Take the Jeffries fight for instance. Johnson was the Ali of his time and surely would find a way to 'be ahead on points' before the fight started.

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    • StarshipTrooper
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      #3
      While I can't read his post as he's in my ignore been for being a complete, mindless idiot; I can imagine he's now slagging off on Johnson the same way he does with Muhammed Ali: ie. Johnson (Ali) couldn't beat John Ruiz's sparring partners, Johnson (Ali) is all hype and no substance, Johnson (Ali) had no skills and did everything wrong, ect.

      As a general rule any intelligent poster on NSB can safely disregard anything LRR posts as he NEVER knows what he's talking about and confuses his hate-biases for facts. In short: He's a moran who should be banned for blatant, willfull ******ity.

      Poet

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      • warp1432
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        #4
        Originally posted by LondonRingRules
        Both notorious huggybear types, both up and down before winning their titles near the same age, both around the same height/reach.

        Let's match em up against each other's comp and see where it shakes out.

        Johnson vs Holy and Ruiz vs Burns: Holy was always weak against spoiler types and past his best, so I figure Johnson would pull out a close win. Little Tommy Burns lacks a single attribute to bother Ruiz in the manner he fought Johnson......Win/Win

        Johnson vs Holy and Ruiz vs Philly O'brien: Holy made an adjustment and arguably gets a draw, so I see nothing in Johnson to prevent this. O'brien also secured a draw, and with his elusive style in a 6 rd match, don't see how Ruiz could prevent it in spite of outweighing Philly by 70lbs, looking like a Valuev to Philly......Draw/Draw

        Oh boy, Johnson vs Johnson and Ruiz vs Ross: Kirk Johnson would've been the biggest, most talented heavy Jack ever faced, sporting 40 lbs over Jack. Jack is probably as strong as Ruiz, enough to spoil like Ruiz which caused a mental breakdown by Kirk, but I doubt he can take his punch, being KOed by Choynski/Haines and later by Willard, and Kirk did land some shots on Ruiz. Probably Ruiz KOs Ross who had no business in a title fight that Jack took a newspaper decision on...... JJohnson Lose/Ruiz Win.

        Johnson vs Jones and Ruiz vs Kaufman: Nothing in Johnson's career could ever prepare for Jones who is near Johnson's size. Figure Roy can pop from outside and cruise to an easy decision or even a KO since Ruiz was wobbled a couple of times. Ruiz would have 30lbs on Kaufman who was slow as mollasses, and probably gets KOed easily. Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

        Johnson vs Oquendo and Ruiz vs Ketchell: Fres a very clever boxer, but not enough size and power to keep Ruiz from tying him up and taking him out of his game. Figure Johnson could do the same, but take a decsion. Ruiz would have 70lbs on Ketchell who could come straight at him, getting KOed......Win/Win

        Johnson vs Golota and Ruiz vs Jeffries: Golota was robbed of his 3 KD and the scores outrageous. Too big and strong for Jack to tie up and don't figure Jack gets up from the 3rd KD. Ruiz would likely waltz ol' Jeff down a few rounds earlier. Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

        Johnson vs Toney and Ruiz vs Flynn: Toney suspended for steroid use and fight an NC. Not really a dime's worth of difference between Ruiz by punch stats. Figure Johnson won't be caught off balance like Ruiz and handles Toney with similar results. Ruiz walks down little Flynn with his 50 extra lbs KOing Fireman....Johnson NC/Ruiz Win

        Johnson vs Valuev and Ruiz vs Battling Jim Johnson: Don't see Johnson doing anymore but soiling hisself. Ruiz walks down BJ who had a pitiable record......Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

        Johnson v Chagaev and Ruiz v Moran: Johnson gives a decent account vs Moran, the only legit prime heavy he has a win over. Ruiz very competitive against Chagaev, so I figure it's a similar bout with the win to Chagaev. Figure Ruiz can also survive Moran's work rate with a similar result......Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

        Finally last title bout for both, Johnson vs Valuev and Ruiz vs Willard: Figure Johnson clever enough to sport a pair of Depends this time, and figure Willard can do the same to Ruiz. Lose/Lose.

        Veeeeeeeirely strange the similarities in their careers and styles with Ruiz having an edge in spite of getting nowhere near a top 30 heavy list.

        JJ's title record is 7-1-2, and Ruiz is 4-4-1, 1 NC. Swapped out, I have JJ at 2-6-1, 1 NC and Ruiz at 8-1-1.

        Now, maybe an argument could be made Johnson wins a couple more of those bouts, but the sheer youth, size, and strength Ruiz faced dwarfs that of Johnson. Johnson doesn't even have the HOF edge, 4-4 HOF bouts, but Ruiz's smallest HOF fighter near the largest size of fighter Johnson ever faced. In most of these swaps Ruiz has a Valuev size advantage over Jack's little challengers.

        What sayeth you?
        Here it is Poet.

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        • StarshipTrooper
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          #5
          Originally posted by warp1432
          Here it is Poet.
          Ah! He's turned into one of those size-obsessed types who nut-hug the "modern" Heavyweight beacause of the size of their waistlines. Roll my eyes.

          Poet

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          • McGrain
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            #6
            Originally posted by LondonRingRules
            Both notorious huggybear types, both up and down before winning their titles near the same age, both around the same height/reach.

            Let's match em up against each other's comp and see where it shakes out.

            Johnson vs Holy and Ruiz vs Burns: Holy was always weak against spoiler types and past his best, so I figure Johnson would pull out a close win. Little Tommy Burns lacks a single attribute to bother Ruiz in the manner he fought Johnson......Win/Win

            Johnson vs Holy and Ruiz vs Philly O'brien: Holy made an adjustment and arguably gets a draw, so I see nothing in Johnson to prevent this. O'brien also secured a draw, and with his elusive style in a 6 rd match, don't see how Ruiz could prevent it in spite of outweighing Philly by 70lbs, looking like a Valuev to Philly......Draw/Draw

            Oh boy, Johnson vs Johnson and Ruiz vs Ross: Kirk Johnson would've been the biggest, most talented heavy Jack ever faced, sporting 40 lbs over Jack. Jack is probably as strong as Ruiz, enough to spoil like Ruiz which caused a mental breakdown by Kirk, but I doubt he can take his punch, being KOed by Choynski/Haines and later by Willard, and Kirk did land some shots on Ruiz. Probably Ruiz KOs Ross who had no business in a title fight that Jack took a newspaper decision on...... JJohnson Lose/Ruiz Win.

            Johnson vs Jones and Ruiz vs Kaufman: Nothing in Johnson's career could ever prepare for Jones who is near Johnson's size. Figure Roy can pop from outside and cruise to an easy decision or even a KO since Ruiz was wobbled a couple of times. Ruiz would have 30lbs on Kaufman who was slow as mollasses, and probably gets KOed easily. Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

            Johnson vs Oquendo and Ruiz vs Ketchell: Fres a very clever boxer, but not enough size and power to keep Ruiz from tying him up and taking him out of his game. Figure Johnson could do the same, but take a decsion. Ruiz would have 70lbs on Ketchell who could come straight at him, getting KOed......Win/Win

            Johnson vs Golota and Ruiz vs Jeffries: Golota was robbed of his 3 KD and the scores outrageous. Too big and strong for Jack to tie up and don't figure Jack gets up from the 3rd KD. Ruiz would likely waltz ol' Jeff down a few rounds earlier. Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

            Johnson vs Toney and Ruiz vs Flynn: Toney suspended for steroid use and fight an NC. Not really a dime's worth of difference between Ruiz by punch stats. Figure Johnson won't be caught off balance like Ruiz and handles Toney with similar results. Ruiz walks down little Flynn with his 50 extra lbs KOing Fireman....Johnson NC/Ruiz Win

            Johnson vs Valuev and Ruiz vs Battling Jim Johnson: Don't see Johnson doing anymore but soiling hisself. Ruiz walks down BJ who had a pitiable record......Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

            Johnson v Chagaev and Ruiz v Moran: Johnson gives a decent account vs Moran, the only legit prime heavy he has a win over. Ruiz very competitive against Chagaev, so I figure it's a similar bout with the win to Chagaev. Figure Ruiz can also survive Moran's work rate with a similar result......Johnson Lose/Ruiz Win

            Finally last title bout for both, Johnson vs Valuev and Ruiz vs Willard: Figure Johnson clever enough to sport a pair of Depends this time, and figure Willard can do the same to Ruiz. Lose/Lose.

            Veeeeeeeirely strange the similarities in their careers and styles with Ruiz having an edge in spite of getting nowhere near a top 30 heavy list.

            JJ's title record is 7-1-2, and Ruiz is 4-4-1, 1 NC. Swapped out, I have JJ at 2-6-1, 1 NC and Ruiz at 8-1-1.

            Now, maybe an argument could be made Johnson wins a couple more of those bouts, but the sheer youth, size, and strength Ruiz faced dwarfs that of Johnson. Johnson doesn't even have the HOF edge, 4-4 HOF bouts, but Ruiz's smallest HOF fighter near the largest size of fighter Johnson ever faced. In most of these swaps Ruiz has a Valuev size advantage over Jack's little challengers.

            What sayeth you?

            That's not a good post.

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            • LondonRingRules
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              #7
              Originally posted by BatTheMan
              Pretty interesting and nicely thought out subject and post.

              I think you need to add the element of needle in to the equation. Johnson was an expert in needling his opponents. Take the Jeffries fight for instance. Johnson was the Ali of his time and surely would find a way to 'be ahead on points' before the fight started.
              ** If you look at who Ruiz fought, most would be invulnerable to needling.

              Holy, Chagaev, Valuev, are invulnerable to taunts. Toney feeds on what Johnson dishes out for dessert and then starts slingin' his own stuff, making everyone duck. The needle just makes Roy more focused. Oquendo and Kirk Johnson might fall for it.

              The point of the thread was a comparison of title reigns and eras. Neither Johnson or Ruiz was meeting the top competition while they held the belt and both dethroned by the reigning Giant of their day and have many similarities in style and both widely booed for it in the ring.

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              • Smokin'J
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                #8
                Jack Johnson John Ruiz
                Knockdowns scored 2 0


                Jabs / Round 7.00 4.00
                Hooks / Round 8.00 3.00
                Crosses / Round 8.00 1.50
                Combinations / Round 6.00 2.00
                Uppercuts / Round 6.00 1.50


                Punches Landed / Round 35.00 12.00
                Punches Missed / Round 46.50 9.50


                Punching Accuracy 42.9% 55.8%


                Total Number of Fouls 0 0

                Here's Mark Beiro with the call…

                Ladies and Gentlemen! The winner by knockout at the 02:47 mark in Round 2 is…

                Jack Johnson!



                (some fake boxing game)
                Last edited by Smokin'J; 01-03-2009, 07:04 AM.

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                • StarshipTrooper
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Genryu
                  Jack Johnson John Ruiz
                  Knockdowns scored 2 0


                  Jabs / Round 7.00 4.00
                  Hooks / Round 8.00 3.00
                  Crosses / Round 8.00 1.50
                  Combinations / Round 6.00 2.00
                  Uppercuts / Round 6.00 1.50


                  Punches Landed / Round 35.00 12.00
                  Punches Missed / Round 46.50 9.50


                  Punching Accuracy 42.9% 55.8%


                  Total Number of Fouls 0 0

                  Here's Mark Beiro with the call…

                  Ladies and Gentlemen! The winner by knockout at the 02:47 mark in Round 2 is…

                  Jack Johnson!



                  (some fake boxing game)
                  Judging by the punch breakdown I'd say that's Title Bout II. Data Boxing doesn't get that detailed. I have both.

                  Poet

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                  • Smokin'J
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by poet682006
                    Judging by the punch breakdown I'd say that's Title Bout II. Data Boxing doesn't get that detailed. I have both.

                    Poet
                    yassuh, mmm Data Boxing? gonna check that out! any good?

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