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Are Today’s Fighters Better Than The Great Fighters Of The Past? Part 2
All of these modern examples of greatly seasoned professional fighters were past their physical peak. A fighter’s physical prime is generally between the ages of 24-28. There is a deterioration of physical skills after age 30, which accelerates after 35. Now, imagine a fighter who had the experience that the greats of the past had while still in his physical prime. Can you picture some of today’s champions with even a smidgen of the fighting experience of the greats of the past?
There are other causes contributing to the decline of fighting technique in the modern era, other than lack of a large talent pool and lack of experience. Today, for example, there is a lack of great trainers. So many young boxing commentators simply repeat the blather of modern mythmakers. One such writer wrote, “In the old days, trainers knew the basics but none took the time to study it as a science as do so many today.” This is completely laughable. The contrary is actually true. Many of the great trainers of the past had been great fighters before they became trainers and they dedicated their entire lives to studying the techniques of boxing. Joe Frazier commented, (KO Magazine, March 1999) "These guys aren’t trained by real champions, by great ex-fighters." The best trainers in history were themselves fighters who knew all the ins and outs of the game, for example, Marciano's trainer, Charley Goldman, claimed to have had over 300 pro fights. Jack Blackburn, Joe Louis’ trainer, was one of the great fighters of the turn of the century (with over 150 pro fights) and had fought the likes of Joe Gans and Sam Langford. How many fights did Don Turner or Emmanuel Steward have? Steward is one of the best offensive minds among trainers today and is certainly a good one, but one sees the point. Many of today's trainers lack knowledge of many of the techniques of the great ring generals of the past because of a lack of experience as fighters themselves.
Most trainers today fall into either the category of the motivator ("your blowin’ it son", or are conditioning experts ("no pain, no gain"). But they lack any real knowledge of the intricacies of the game, which is forged over many years of experience spent actually fighting. Ray Arcel, who learned from some of the greatest trainers of history noted, "Boxing is not really boxing today. It’s theater. Some kids might look good. But they don’t learn their trade. If you take a piece of gold out of the ground, you know its gold. But you have to clean it. You have to polish it. But there aren’t too many guys capable (today) of polishing a fighter" (Anderson 149).
That’s why there are so few good defensive fighters these days, why so few can feint and counter. How many fighters today do you see who actually use head movement? Modern boxers do not know the techniques that made the fighters of the past great craftsman, as opposed to mere fighters. The modern boxer is a commercial product, manufactured by hype, a shill for magazines or cable channels or pay-per-view embarrassments. Fighters of the modern era are weak at counter-punching, defense, head movement, shoulder rolling, bobbing and weaving, jabbing with their chin down, parrying, feinting, etc. (you get the idea). They lack these skills because they lack experience.
Recently (summer 2004) I received an e-mail from a source at Top Rank who said the following about their hot protege Miguel Cotto, one of the most skilled young fighters in the game, "We think that he will be at his peak in another 10-12 fights, which in today's market means about three years unfortunately. Cotto is a big fan of the older fighters, has a deep sense of boxing history, and is aware of how many fights it took his heroes Arguello, J.C. Chavez, Duran, and Carlos Ortiz to mature. He's not going to have that opportunity to gain as much experience as his idols, but he will continue to work hard to become the best fighter that he can." This hammers home the point that today's fighters simply do not fight often enough to match the experience of the greats of the past.
Some modern analysts have said that fighters like Jack Johnson (heavyweight champion 1908-1915) only fought guys who threw one punch at a time. This is a modern myth. Of course one could not block Joe Louis combination against Jersey Joe Walcott, but the point is he dropped his hands to give the opening in the first place. Louis still had to throw leads to set up his punches the same as any fighter. The old masters knew how to block a jab and intercept an opponent’s leads and counterpunch. A lot of fighters today have no clue how to actually block a jab. Not just slip but also block. Knowing how to block and counter a jab is one of the primary reasons Ken Norton beat Muhammad Ali. Eddie Futch, (Anderson pg. 233), one of the great trainers said, “The jab was a big reason Muhammad Ali never figured out why he had so much trouble with Ken Norton in their three fights.”
Some analysts mentions "old-time" fighters and point to guys like Lamotta, and Basilio, who were brawler types. Styles make fights so yes those guys would be "cut to ribbons" by a superior boxer just as they were by an aged Ray Robinson. However, there were boxing master’s pre 1920 like George Dixon, Joe Gans, Jack Johnson, and Sam Langford who had speed, power, skills, and experience to be great in any generation as well.
Boxing, above anything else, is a game of mental energy. It's the ability to out-think the other guy. It's brains over brawn and athleticism every time. The ability to feint the other guy out of position, the ability to make him do what you want him to do. The old masters would use their mental energy and experience to out think you. That is what boxing is all about. If you were a counter-puncher they would make you lead. If you were aggressive they would make you back up. They knew where to hit you, the solar plexus, and the liver, behind the ear. The old masters, for the most part, because of their great skill and experience could out-think and out-fight today's relatively inactive boxers.
Skill wise, many of the old time greats were just as sharp, and skillful as technicians as those of modern boxing masters, while exceeding them in experience. Some fans are under the impression that the post 1900 to Pre WW 1 era did not produce fighters who excelled at combination punching. I saw one fan post that all such fighters were "crude." This is simply not the case. This era saw all major styles of boxing, slick and clever boxers like "dancing master" Phildelphia Jack O'Brien (light-heavyweight champion 1902-1912), boxer-punchers like Sam Langford (career 1902-1926), swarmers like Battling Nelson (lightweight champion 1908-1910), and raw sluggers like Stanley Ketchel (middleweight champion 1908-1910) and not just the latter type. Boxers with skill to match and indeed surpass those of modern fighters were men like Joe Gans (lightweight champion 1902-1908), Abe Attell (featherweight champion 1901-1912), and Sam Langford.
One cannot judge entirely on the available film as Randy Roberts wrote speaking of the classic period, (Papa Jack p 60), “Watching the films of (Jack) Johnson is like listening to a 1900 recording of Enrico Caruso played on a 1910 gramophone. When Johnson fought Burns film was still in its early days, not yet capable of capturing the subtleties of movement. Nuance is lost in the furious and stilted actions of the figures, which move about the screen in Chaplinesque manner, as if some drunken cutter had arbitrarily removed three of every four frames. When we watch fighters of Johnson’s day on film, we wonder how they could be considered even good. That some of them were champions strains credulity. They look like large children, wrestling and cuffing each other, but not actually fighting like real boxers, not at all like Ali captured in zoom-lensed, slow-motion, technological grace. But the films mislead.”
I have the rare Gans-Nelson 1 film and it is apparent, even on this old silent film, that Joe Gans throws lightning-quick combinations. Joe Louis was one of the best combination punchers in history the films prove that. Where did he learn them? Jack Blackburn, his trainer, who had over 150 pro fights and fought in the 1900's and 1910's. I don’t agree, as some claim, that the pre 1920 fighters didn’t throw "sustained combination punching." It's a matter of style. George Foreman never threw "sustained combination" punches in his life but he won the heavyweight title twice in modern times and was very successful with other skills such as power, setting up his punches and punching technique and the older George had some defensive ability as well. Imagine Foreman with the experience, defense, and boxing ability that he had when he was old at the age of 25 when he destroyed Joe Frazier. He most likely would never have lost to Ali. Combine the old and new Foreman and you have a picture of some of the greats of the early century-except men like Johnson, Gans, Langford etc. also had great hand speed. To insinuate that the "old masters" wouldn’t be successful today is a grave error.
There are certain modern fighters that would be competitive in any period Julio Cesar Chavez at his peak is a good example, Oscar Delahoya is a complete fighter who was successful in several divisions, Bernard Hopkins and Winky Wright are "old school" type fighters and they are a pair of the best fighters in the world in 2004. Floyd Mayweather is one of the few great fighters left who has it both offensively and defensively. These guys would be good to great fighters in any era. But overall skills are on the decrease not on the increase.
All of these modern examples of greatly seasoned professional fighters were past their physical peak. A fighter’s physical prime is generally between the ages of 24-28. There is a deterioration of physical skills after age 30, which accelerates after 35. Now, imagine a fighter who had the experience that the greats of the past had while still in his physical prime. Can you picture some of today’s champions with even a smidgen of the fighting experience of the greats of the past?
There are other causes contributing to the decline of fighting technique in the modern era, other than lack of a large talent pool and lack of experience. Today, for example, there is a lack of great trainers. So many young boxing commentators simply repeat the blather of modern mythmakers. One such writer wrote, “In the old days, trainers knew the basics but none took the time to study it as a science as do so many today.” This is completely laughable. The contrary is actually true. Many of the great trainers of the past had been great fighters before they became trainers and they dedicated their entire lives to studying the techniques of boxing. Joe Frazier commented, (KO Magazine, March 1999) "These guys aren’t trained by real champions, by great ex-fighters." The best trainers in history were themselves fighters who knew all the ins and outs of the game, for example, Marciano's trainer, Charley Goldman, claimed to have had over 300 pro fights. Jack Blackburn, Joe Louis’ trainer, was one of the great fighters of the turn of the century (with over 150 pro fights) and had fought the likes of Joe Gans and Sam Langford. How many fights did Don Turner or Emmanuel Steward have? Steward is one of the best offensive minds among trainers today and is certainly a good one, but one sees the point. Many of today's trainers lack knowledge of many of the techniques of the great ring generals of the past because of a lack of experience as fighters themselves.
Most trainers today fall into either the category of the motivator ("your blowin’ it son", or are conditioning experts ("no pain, no gain"). But they lack any real knowledge of the intricacies of the game, which is forged over many years of experience spent actually fighting. Ray Arcel, who learned from some of the greatest trainers of history noted, "Boxing is not really boxing today. It’s theater. Some kids might look good. But they don’t learn their trade. If you take a piece of gold out of the ground, you know its gold. But you have to clean it. You have to polish it. But there aren’t too many guys capable (today) of polishing a fighter" (Anderson 149).
That’s why there are so few good defensive fighters these days, why so few can feint and counter. How many fighters today do you see who actually use head movement? Modern boxers do not know the techniques that made the fighters of the past great craftsman, as opposed to mere fighters. The modern boxer is a commercial product, manufactured by hype, a shill for magazines or cable channels or pay-per-view embarrassments. Fighters of the modern era are weak at counter-punching, defense, head movement, shoulder rolling, bobbing and weaving, jabbing with their chin down, parrying, feinting, etc. (you get the idea). They lack these skills because they lack experience.
Recently (summer 2004) I received an e-mail from a source at Top Rank who said the following about their hot protege Miguel Cotto, one of the most skilled young fighters in the game, "We think that he will be at his peak in another 10-12 fights, which in today's market means about three years unfortunately. Cotto is a big fan of the older fighters, has a deep sense of boxing history, and is aware of how many fights it took his heroes Arguello, J.C. Chavez, Duran, and Carlos Ortiz to mature. He's not going to have that opportunity to gain as much experience as his idols, but he will continue to work hard to become the best fighter that he can." This hammers home the point that today's fighters simply do not fight often enough to match the experience of the greats of the past.
Some modern analysts have said that fighters like Jack Johnson (heavyweight champion 1908-1915) only fought guys who threw one punch at a time. This is a modern myth. Of course one could not block Joe Louis combination against Jersey Joe Walcott, but the point is he dropped his hands to give the opening in the first place. Louis still had to throw leads to set up his punches the same as any fighter. The old masters knew how to block a jab and intercept an opponent’s leads and counterpunch. A lot of fighters today have no clue how to actually block a jab. Not just slip but also block. Knowing how to block and counter a jab is one of the primary reasons Ken Norton beat Muhammad Ali. Eddie Futch, (Anderson pg. 233), one of the great trainers said, “The jab was a big reason Muhammad Ali never figured out why he had so much trouble with Ken Norton in their three fights.”
Some analysts mentions "old-time" fighters and point to guys like Lamotta, and Basilio, who were brawler types. Styles make fights so yes those guys would be "cut to ribbons" by a superior boxer just as they were by an aged Ray Robinson. However, there were boxing master’s pre 1920 like George Dixon, Joe Gans, Jack Johnson, and Sam Langford who had speed, power, skills, and experience to be great in any generation as well.
Boxing, above anything else, is a game of mental energy. It's the ability to out-think the other guy. It's brains over brawn and athleticism every time. The ability to feint the other guy out of position, the ability to make him do what you want him to do. The old masters would use their mental energy and experience to out think you. That is what boxing is all about. If you were a counter-puncher they would make you lead. If you were aggressive they would make you back up. They knew where to hit you, the solar plexus, and the liver, behind the ear. The old masters, for the most part, because of their great skill and experience could out-think and out-fight today's relatively inactive boxers.
Skill wise, many of the old time greats were just as sharp, and skillful as technicians as those of modern boxing masters, while exceeding them in experience. Some fans are under the impression that the post 1900 to Pre WW 1 era did not produce fighters who excelled at combination punching. I saw one fan post that all such fighters were "crude." This is simply not the case. This era saw all major styles of boxing, slick and clever boxers like "dancing master" Phildelphia Jack O'Brien (light-heavyweight champion 1902-1912), boxer-punchers like Sam Langford (career 1902-1926), swarmers like Battling Nelson (lightweight champion 1908-1910), and raw sluggers like Stanley Ketchel (middleweight champion 1908-1910) and not just the latter type. Boxers with skill to match and indeed surpass those of modern fighters were men like Joe Gans (lightweight champion 1902-1908), Abe Attell (featherweight champion 1901-1912), and Sam Langford.
One cannot judge entirely on the available film as Randy Roberts wrote speaking of the classic period, (Papa Jack p 60), “Watching the films of (Jack) Johnson is like listening to a 1900 recording of Enrico Caruso played on a 1910 gramophone. When Johnson fought Burns film was still in its early days, not yet capable of capturing the subtleties of movement. Nuance is lost in the furious and stilted actions of the figures, which move about the screen in Chaplinesque manner, as if some drunken cutter had arbitrarily removed three of every four frames. When we watch fighters of Johnson’s day on film, we wonder how they could be considered even good. That some of them were champions strains credulity. They look like large children, wrestling and cuffing each other, but not actually fighting like real boxers, not at all like Ali captured in zoom-lensed, slow-motion, technological grace. But the films mislead.”
I have the rare Gans-Nelson 1 film and it is apparent, even on this old silent film, that Joe Gans throws lightning-quick combinations. Joe Louis was one of the best combination punchers in history the films prove that. Where did he learn them? Jack Blackburn, his trainer, who had over 150 pro fights and fought in the 1900's and 1910's. I don’t agree, as some claim, that the pre 1920 fighters didn’t throw "sustained combination punching." It's a matter of style. George Foreman never threw "sustained combination" punches in his life but he won the heavyweight title twice in modern times and was very successful with other skills such as power, setting up his punches and punching technique and the older George had some defensive ability as well. Imagine Foreman with the experience, defense, and boxing ability that he had when he was old at the age of 25 when he destroyed Joe Frazier. He most likely would never have lost to Ali. Combine the old and new Foreman and you have a picture of some of the greats of the early century-except men like Johnson, Gans, Langford etc. also had great hand speed. To insinuate that the "old masters" wouldn’t be successful today is a grave error.
There are certain modern fighters that would be competitive in any period Julio Cesar Chavez at his peak is a good example, Oscar Delahoya is a complete fighter who was successful in several divisions, Bernard Hopkins and Winky Wright are "old school" type fighters and they are a pair of the best fighters in the world in 2004. Floyd Mayweather is one of the few great fighters left who has it both offensively and defensively. These guys would be good to great fighters in any era. But overall skills are on the decrease not on the increase.
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