Do you think that Sonny Liston intentionally..

[Boogie Nights]

You can see that it landed and rocked Liston's head back in slow motion. It was only a flash knockdown though and Liston should've been able to get up immediately.

Yeah, Dundee always pointed that out about the head snapping back. To me it doesnt really prove or convince me of anything. the head always snaps back in some instances even if the punch dont carry that much mustard. Ive see guys hit with feather dusters and their head spins like Michael Keaton in beetlejuice, eventhough it doesnt even hurt them

liston took far harder shots to the chin than that. Ali never had a one punch ko power, and he was moving back. The punch did land and connect, but it was nothing huge.

i was totally convinced when Sonny displayed his acting talents while trying to get up and then dramatically falling on the canvas again

if you ask me, ill say bull**** almost every time.

[TheGreatA]

I have also heard that Williams had openly complained, but it isn't something I can verify at this time.

I've never heard anything of it, but it could've happened.

Watching that fight I don't see when it could've happened though, both fights were rather short and Williams did not seem to have any problems with his eyes.

There have been all sorts of theories and rumors about this. Some more reasonable than others. But I think its very clear Liston was looking for a way out.

I have no doubt he could have beaten the count or that Walcott screwed up. It just doesn't look like he wanted to. That punch was his excuse to get out of that fight, but Walcotts incompetence sealed it.

The fight was a mess. Jersey Joe should've never been the referee, he was clearly not experienced enough to deal with a situation like that.

Yeah, Dundee always pointed that out about the head snapping back. To me it doesnt really prove or convince me of anything. the head always snaps back in some instances even if the punch dont carry that much mustard. Ive see guys hit with feather dusters and their head spins like Michael Keaton in beetlejuice, eventhough it doesnt even hurt them

liston took far harder shots to the chin than that. Ali never had a one punch ko power, and he was moving back. The punch did land and connect, but it was nothing huge.

i was totally convinced when Sonny displayed his acting talents while trying to get up and then dramatically falling on the canvas again

if you ask me, ill say bull**** almost every time.

It was a flash knockdown, Liston went down legitimately. He was reaching with his jab and took a fast left on the chin that he did not see coming.
What happened afterwards was not legitimate. Atleast that's what I believe.

So many things wrong about that one, Jersey Joe not giving Liston the count, Ali not going to his corner, Liston not getting up, falling down again in a poor acting performance and Nat Fleischer from the audience ordering Walcott to stop the fight.

To be honest I'm not going to say that anyone is wrong about this one because in truth, I don't know what to believe. I'd say it's one of those things that we will never get a definite answer about.

[Boogie Nights]

It was a flash knockdown, Liston went down legitimately. He was reaching with his jab and took a fast left on the chin that he did not see coming.
What happened afterwards was not legitimate. Atleast that's what I believe

Yes like i said the shot landed clean but it wasnt anything huge. I think that liston didnt want to get up not when he was already down, i think it happened way before that. Maybe in his locker room, maybe a week before the fight, maybe when he heard the news that the first time the fight was to be cancelled due to ali's illness. Or maybe he was paid off.

In liston's mind, i think it was already arranged that he was not in it for the full ride. Ali's punch just reminded him of that idea, and he wanted to end the show right then and there

[Xyei]

Thanks for all the posts guys! I feel much more educated on the subject now even though I still have a lot of questions that will never be answered.

[BattlingNelson]

Yeah, Dundee always pointed that out about the head snapping back. To me it doesnt really prove or convince me of anything. the head always snaps back in some instances even if the punch dont carry that much mustard. Ive see guys hit with feather dusters and their head spins like Michael Keaton in beetlejuice, eventhough it doesnt even hurt them

liston took far harder shots to the chin than that. Ali never had a one punch ko power, and he was moving back. The punch did land and connect, but it was nothing huge.

i was totally convinced when Sonny displayed his acting talents while trying to get up and then dramatically falling on the canvas again

if you ask me, ill say bull**** almost every time.

If I should compare the KD to something recent I'd say it's comparable to the KD Calzaghe suffered against Hopkins. Liston could have gotten up like Calzaghe did IMO.

And yes. The acting was very poor.

[Boogie Nights]

If I should compare the KD to something recent I'd say it's comparable to the KD Calzaghe suffered against Hopkins. Liston could have gotten up like Calzaghe did IMO.

And yes. The acting was very poor.

the effect of the punch, maybe. Both didnt seem all that powerfull. But it's so hard to see how the punch could supposedly cause that much damage because the camera gives you a back view. the punch is not clear that's why they call it the "phantom punch" but it did land

the only difference between those 2 KDs is that Hopkins was coming forward and actually pushing Calzaghe down when the punch connected. Liston almost went down voluntairly. Both punches were not that serious. one guy got up, the other didnt.

[butterfly1964]

I think his corner panicked and put moxsel solution on his gloves. Sonny was in with a very shady group of people during his boxing days, so it doesn't suprise me.