Does anyone else feel that Oscar Bonevena was underrated?

**TheGreatA** · 07-21-2008, 09:25 PM

Not only Oscar Bonavena who unfortunately murdered at an early age but Quarry, Lyle and others who were overshadowed by Ali, Foreman and Frazier.

Bonavena put Frazier on the canvas and could've been given credit for being the only man to knock Chuvalo down as well. Whether it was a punch or a slip isn't clear in the video I saw but Bonavena unquestionably hurt Chuvalo.

Bonavena vs Frazier

Ali predicted a knockout in round 9 but it was he who was almost put on the canvas by Bonavena.

One of my favorite fighters of the era Jerry Quarry:

It would've been a hell of a fight if these two ever met!

**slicksouthpaw16** · 07-21-2008, 09:33 PM

Yeah, Ali was hurt badly in that fight and he carried damage with him in his first fight with Frazier. Thats how strong and durable Bonevena was. Its really a shame that fighters gets overshadowed by legends. That also happened to Tommy Hearns(who still managed to be great but was overshadowed by Leonard and Hagler) John Mugabi( who was sysematically broken down and was never the same from the Hagler fight) and even Sonny Liston in a way. If Ali never came on the scene or even came a bit later down the road, then Liston could have been pretty dominate IMO even though he was a bit older.

**TheGreatA** · 07-21-2008, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by slicksouthpaw16

Yeah, Ali was hurt badly in that fight and he carried damage with him in his first fight with Frazier. Thats how strong and durable Bonevena was. Its really a shame that fighters gets overshadowed by legends. That also happened to Tommy Hearns(who still managed to be great but was overshadowed by Leonard and Hagler) John Mugabi( who was sysematically broken down and was never the same from the Hagler fight) and even Sonny Liston in a way. If Ali never came on the scene or even came a bit later down the road, then Liston could have been pretty dominate IMO even though he was a bit older.

I don't think Sonny would've lost until the late 60's when Frazier, Ellis, Quarry and the man who knocked him out, Leotis Martin came along.
He would've certainly dispatched little Henry Cooper, Patterson AGAIN (yes, he wanted a third fight), London and Mildenberger. Also Folley and Williams whom he had already demolished in their primes.

The only 60's Ali title challengers who could've given old Liston trouble would've been Chuvalo with his toughness and endurance (as long as his skin lasts) and perhaps the tall Terrell with his jab and grab style.

**Silencers** · 07-21-2008, 11:42 PM

Bonavena was a good, tough fighter who gave Frazier hell especially the first time they fought, he was a knockdown away from winning but he wasn't that good of a boxer.

**slicksouthpaw16** · 07-22-2008, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by TheManchine

I don't think Sonny would've lost until the late 60's when Frazier, Ellis, Quarry and the man who knocked him out, Leotis Martin came along.
He would've certainly dispatched little Henry Cooper, Patterson AGAIN (yes, he wanted a third fight), London and Mildenberger. Also Folley and Williams whom he had already demolished in their primes.

The only 60's Ali title challengers who could've given old Liston trouble would've been Chuvalo with his toughness and endurance (as long as his skin lasts) and perhaps the tall Terrell with his jab and grab style.

I agree, Liston was a true beast and it took arguebally the greatest heavyweight of all time to beat him during his title rein. I would look have loved to seen how Terell/Liston would have played out. I re watched Terrell/Foster and Ernie was an underrated fighter as well. Even though Foster was past his weight class, it was still and overall good performance by Terrell where he showed he was technically sound. He would have been Liston's toughest fight if Ali came a bit longer down the road.

**LondonRingRules** · 07-22-2008, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by TheManchine

Ali predicted a knockout in round 9 but it was he who was almost put on the canvas by Bonavena.

** Ali camp grossly underestimated the strength of Oscar.

He was probably as strong as Foreman with a very difficult, one off style that no fighters could ever train for. It seems he was on the losing end of fight politics since he utterly bulls Ali around the ring, basically having his way, yet well behind on the cards. One of Ali's worst fights.

Without this fight, Ali would have never lasted the distance against Frazier. It was the work he needed to prepare for that fight.

Ali comes up with Hail Mary left hook and downs Bonavena who quickly bounces up. Ali gets a series of gifts at this point since the ref never enforced the neutral corner rule that Ali broke repeatedly in his career. He allows Ali to deck Oscar again and again which stops the fight because of the 3 KD rule.

Of course Oscar a victim of his own machismo, never thinks about staying on the canvas to rest and extend the count. He's ready to fight come hell, highwater, or knockdowns. He was also jerk and a bully in the mold of Duran, but honest about it.

I imagine he'd blast out Ruiz, Chagaev, and a few others today who would be mowed down by his strength, style, and stamina.

**duffgun** · 07-23-2008, 03:19 AM

Originally posted by Silencers

Bonavena was a good, tough fighter who gave Frazier hell especially the first time they fought, he was a knockdown away from winning but he wasn't that good of a boxer.

Yeah Bonavena was tough but he was beat by an ancient Patterson, although the fight was very close.

**the_godslayer** · 07-23-2008, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by slicksouthpaw16

I really don't think he got the credit that he deserves as a fighter. He was very strong, a very heavy handed puncher, very durable(was only stopped by Ali), and had good boxing ability. He just came in when the division was hot with Ali, Frazier ect. He could have been a champion IMO if he came in a bit earlier. You could also make a case for him beating Frazier in their first fight. It was very close and he had Joe out several times. Hes one of my favorite heavyweights.

Great whiskers on Bonnaveno, i rated him highly myself too.

**StarshipTrooper** · 07-23-2008, 10:58 AM

Bonevena was a good, tough fighter. Stopped only once, by Ali, and was on his feet at the time of the stoppage. Gave Frazier fits in both fights. Not a bad resume to have!

Poet

Does anyone else feel that Oscar Bonevena was underrated?