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** Panama Lewis may have been shady, but only because boxing had a rich history of shady dealings.
Pryor a very underrated champion. Guy couldn't get a shot at lightweight, moves up and becomes the first to KO a HOFer. He beat Hearns in the amateurs and challenged Leonard. Exciting fighter winning by dramatic KOs. Perfect record until the detached retina and coke addition gave him ring rust.
The stomach takes at least 15 min to absorb anything, maybe more. At that point in time, there was nothing against popping a shot of Peppermint Schnapps which is what Lewis supposedly claimed were the contents. The whole history of boxing is fighters using substances including moderns like Vargas, Toney, Holy, and Mosley who are steroid users.
I've carefully studied that fight and it appears to many just make up nonsense about that last round. Pryor did not come out like a ball of fire. The fight had been ebb and flow and just entered Arguello's championship rounds. He had done a number on Pryor the previous round.
Arguello comes out relaxed, coiled, and waiting for The Shot. Pryor lays back and probes, remembering the tattooing he got the previous round. Very little return fire coming his way. He leaps in and lands flush. Arguello is hurt, and Pryor leaps again with a brutal flurry that finishes him. Don't think Pryor had to work more than 15 sec after a minute rest and 30 sec of probing.
Pryor never gets credit for his tactics. He was a very natural, instinctive fighter, true, but he had to make several major adjustments to beat Arguello who made as fine a fight as ever been made. That fight and the fighters both highly underrated, much better than Ali/Frazier or Duran/Leonard, even better than Leonard/Hearns because of the incredible ebb and flow of the fight and the stupendous workrate by both fighters, not to mention the skills and style contrast.
Maybe Pryor was on something, but by stomach he'd have to have used it several rounds earlier before taking effect. Regardless, the fight not decided in the end by some kind of enhanced endurance, but rather tactics.Comment
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LondonRules......good analysis of Pryor. I do think that he could have been headed to a hall of fame career had he had the luck of beating fighters in their prime that were legendary. He did not have this luck...
The point where your completley wrong is how it would take 15 minutes for something to hit their system. WRONG!!!
I happen to be a Manager of one the top 5 Pharmaceautical Companies (Eli Lilly) in the world. I sold Insulin, and other diabetes products. Lets examine, if a person has diabetes, and they go low (become hyperglycemic), by your analysis, they would have to either take a shot of something, or take some food that will not benefit them until 15 minutes later, thus they would die.....Wrong!! Simple carbs or things with High GI (Glycemic Index) can immediately be dissolved into the system. Examples of these things are energy gels, sports drinks, banana,
London Rules, what your referring too is complex carbs where the body takes a bit longer to break down the components to hit the system. I could go on and on about this, but the fact is, drinking something can and does provide an immediate short term energy boost. Which is all that many are accusing Lewis of doing. That is why boxing has stipulated you can not cheat and put ANYTHING in the drinks that fighters get in between rounds. This CAN lead to an unfair advantage in the immediately following round.
Thus you have the black bottle incident.
I ask this, what top fighter who was at their best weight class, and in their prime did Pryor ever beat as a professional. Also beating hearns as an amateur, is a completley different issue than beating him as a professional. Reason being hearns had no power as a amateur, he was known as a boxer, but once Steward got to him and he became a professional....WOW>>>Comment
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how DID stewart do that? its almost unbelievable that he just teaches him one technique and all of a sudden this powderpuff has a cannon in his right hand; its perplexing, and very hard to believe.Comment
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Taught him leverage.... If you look at Hearns record as amateur when he was known as a pretty good boxer, it had very few ko's...then once he became a professional, leverage and using the jab to keep his opponents at bay and the right hand snap, landing punishing punches when his opponents are at arms length.....Comment
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Great analysis. I enjoy reading your opinions.
My point was, and still is, that maybe nothing but tapwater was in the bottle, but the fact that the cornerman said "Give me the bottle I mixed" and that that cornerman being a man capable of removing the padding in the gloves and soaking the fighters hands in plaster, will forever cast a shade over this fight.
Believe me. I wouldn't argue Pryor's HOF credentials for a second, it's only about this particular fight.Comment
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** Pryor was inducted in 96, so I don't understand why Mr. Pinky is coming off his Duran thread specialty to make a false claim that Pryor could have been heading to the HOF but for.....
Let's also be clear here. I'm in no way defending Panama Lewis. His actions including the Collins incident shrouded in mystery because of the shady nature of boxing orgs, commishes, and the lack of oversight by them. Collin's corner, run by his own father, failed to check the wrappings. After the fight and after Collin's father grabs Resto's gloves and shouts out the alarm, a minute later he's hugging Resto. Lewis took advantage of that gross negligence and I have no sympathy for him or Resto.
Lewis is quoted during the fight on tape as saying he mixed a bottle for the fight, so it seems he did. What is in dispute is the substance(s) used in the mixing. He was quoted as claiming peppermint schnapps, a long time pickmeup in boxing history along with whiskey.
Mr. Pinky has unknowingly made my position more firm. What he has stated is a collection of facts taken out of context to this situation. He compares a diabetic going into hypoglycemic shock eating an orange, candy bar, or drinking a sugared soft drink or fruit juice in order to survive or prevent physiologic damage.
That in no way represents what a healthy fighter is experiencing in a tough, competitive fight. Completely different circumstances. BTW, corners are allowed to use gatorade and other like sports drinks as long as they don't contain some of the notorious banned substances prohibited by the various org or commish rules. So sugars and electrolytes are allowed in boxing generally speaking. What is no longer allowed is alcohol, amphetamines, and most recently steroids. There was no mandatory drug testing in Pryor's day in boxing except at the Olympics.
The substantial claim against Pryor is that Lewis mixed ******* and/or amphetamines and or some kind of witchdoc concoction in the "black bottle" which looked supiciously unblack and perfectly normal when the assistant handed it to Lewis.
It is still going to take 15 min to gain any performance advantage from a drug administered by stomach. Maybe alcohol might works a little faster since it's water solvent and already in solution mixed with natural sugars. There is a reason why when it really counts in a hospital setting that drugs are almost always delivered by IV, even, yes, alcohol sometimes. Stomachs are unreliable absorbers of drugs and Docs want to be exact as possible when it counts.
Regardless, as I pointed out, Pryor needed very little energy to finish Arguello off. Pryor lay back at the start of the round, probing, and then landed the leaping shot of a lifetime in the blink of the eye, and the fight was over seconds later.
Moreover, nobody is bringing up what Arguello was being adminstered in his corner. Anything that anyone used would have been perfectly legal in pro boxing as far as I can see in this time frame. Not accusing Alexis of anything, but just laying out the conditions of the day.Comment
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London Rules.
Man please stop talking about stuff you know nothing about. Your sounding completely ****** on here. My statment never pointed out IV usage, or drugs. I said food or energy drinks that have a high Glycemic Index. Stay focused, my friend. You have a tendency to talk for 5 paragraphs and debate something no one has said.
You seem to be very defensive on a issue that many have questions about. It is clear he said "No the bottle that I mixed". That is a very clear statment. Also, he came out energized that next round. Very clear action. So people have every right to question what was in that bottle. Your very weak response about no one questioning what was in Arguello's bottle, hmmmm you can do better than that. No one would have questions Pryor's bottle if is corner was not caugth on tape saying he had a bottle with something mixed in it.
That leads to my statment about foods, energy drinks with High Glycemic Index. He very well could have take on that hits the system very quickly and thus gives him the energy burst that we saw in that round.
As for my usage of Hall of fame career as a defining my point about Pryor, that is my fault. My point was clearly he could have been a legendary fighter, of hmmmm let me be more specific, If he had landed fights with Hearns as a professional and won, or Leonard as a professional and won, or even Duran, then his stature in the fight game would have been even higher. Hall of fame career is preety weak, as many get in the hall of fame and have not proved anything substantial.
Finally, it does not necessarily take 15 minutes or more for ALL foods to hit the system. You may want to read upon the Endocrine effect....... Many substances can actually hit the system immediately, through Brain and nervous system stimulated reactions. ...The digestive system operates an interactive relationship with the cardiovascular system, endocrine system and nervous system, all of which can be positively influenced through the benefits of equine massage therapy. The very thought, sight and smell of some foods high in GI, can initiate and expidite the digestive process and even bypass this all together via messages sent along the nervous system.
Learn your stuff son....Last edited by wpink1; 05-11-2008, 09:31 PM.Comment
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Damn good fight. I haven't seen it for a while. The rematch comes on ESPN Classic all the time but it ain't as good as the first one.Comment
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