Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[Jim Jeffries]

It's pretty ****** how naive people are when they think all the best boxers are from "there time".

hearns and hagler were both better than sugar ray, so is mayweather..sugar ray was just innovative for his time, all those guys those guys would crush him.

Larry Holmes below Ali? honestly give me a break get real

Pretty sick of this Old time bias.

Larry Holmes is one of the most overrated fighters of the last century.

[-CANE-]

I'd have to disagree and say Holmes is one of the most underated fighters not overated of all the heavyweights along with Gene Tunney.

Holmes did fight some dubious competition but that can be said of every other heavyweight in history, you can't fight the best in every title defense.
Look at Joe Louis's reign there was so many defenses against the so called bum of the month. Holmes also fought some quality opposition in his defenses of the title.

Neither of them get the credit they are due and this is mainly down to the fact they both followed 2 of the most exciting heavyweights ever.

Tyson did have a more impressive performance against Bruno than Lewis but I'd say Lewis beat Tucker more convincingly. Lewis's performance against Ruddock as well was way more convincing than Tyson's against Ruddock.

[LondonRingRules]

I'd have to disagree and say Holmes is one of the most underated fighters not overated of all the heavyweights along with Gene Tunney.

Holmes did fight some dubious competition but that can be said of every other heavyweight in history, you can't fight the best in every title defense.
Look at Joe Louis's reign there was so many defenses against the so called bum of the month. Holmes also fought some quality opposition in his defenses of the title.

Neither of them get the credit they are due and this is mainly down to the fact they both followed 2 of the most exciting heavyweights ever.

Tyson did have a more impressive performance against Bruno than Lewis but I'd say Lewis beat Tucker more convincingly. Lewis's performance against Ruddock as well was way more convincing than Tyson's against Ruddock.

** Tunney only a handful of heavy bouts, less heavy title bouts than MSpinks. Both fine fighters, but Spinks a bit more accomplished at heavy although Tunney's victories over Dempsey is a finer achievement.

Ali was hardly exciting in many of his comeback bouts. Don't think the crowd was booing his victory over Young because they saw him as exciting.

Larry was perfectly poised to bring some excitement back to the division, and to be fair, fights against Weaver, Norton, and Shavers started him out well, but Norton a bit past it, Weaver and Shavers easy to outbox but stronger than Holmes which pointed out his weaknesses. Probably Cooney his best winning effort, but he did himself no favors chasing Marciano and padding out his record when good prime hungry heavies were fighting each other.

I don't crack on Lewis like many, but remember, Briggs, Ruddock, and Bruno all brutally KOed by Tyson and otherwise softened up for Lewis. Tucker goes the distance as well, so Lewis at this point is doing nothing to really distinguish himself as more than deserving a title shot. Tyson in prison, so Holy and Bowe are the money fights. Maybe Holy was avoiding Lewis, we know Bowe was, but Lewis doesn't really set himself apart as the best until Morrison at the earliest, and more emphatically against Golota and then Briggs. Lewis will always have a high hurdle due to him being a Brit on American lists, but just think hurdles the Klitschkos have had as former Soviet citizens.

[-CANE-]

** Tunney only a handful of heavy bouts, less heavy title bouts than MSpinks. Both fine fighters, but Spinks a bit more accomplished at heavy although Tunney's victories over Dempsey is a finer achievement.

Ali was hardly exciting in many of his comeback bouts. Don't think the crowd was booing his victory over Young because they saw him as exciting.

Larry was perfectly poised to bring some excitement back to the division, and to be fair, fights against Weaver, Norton, and Shavers started him out well, but Norton a bit past it, Weaver and Shavers easy to outbox but stronger than Holmes which pointed out his weaknesses. Probably Cooney his best winning effort, but he did himself no favors chasing Marciano and padding out his record when good prime hungry heavies were fighting each other.

I don't crack on Lewis like many, but remember, Briggs, Ruddock, and Bruno all brutally KOed by Tyson and otherwise softened up for Lewis. Tucker goes the distance as well, so Lewis at this point is doing nothing to really distinguish himself as more than deserving a title shot. Tyson in prison, so Holy and Bowe are the money fights. Maybe Holy was avoiding Lewis, we know Bowe was, but Lewis doesn't really set himself apart as the best until Morrison at the earliest, and more emphatically against Golota and then Briggs. Lewis will always have a high hurdle due to him being a Brit on American lists, but just think hurdles the Klitschkos have had as former Soviet citizens.

Think you meant Biggs not Briggs.
Have to disagree Ruddock was not brutally ko'd by Tyson or softened up.
In the 1st fight he was stopped prematurely still on his feet and totally aware of what was going on. He proved this in the rematch going the distance so he was hardly brutally ko'd by Tyson. After the dismantling of Ruddock Lewis more than proved he was worthy of a title shot and being champion. I think Lewis had more hurdles to overcome than any other fighter in the last 20 years. Boxing politics tried to keep him away from winning the title.

[Jim Jeffries]

I'd have to disagree and say Holmes is one of the most underated fighters not overated of all the heavyweights along with Gene Tunney.

Holmes did fight some dubious competition but that can be said of every other heavyweight in history, you can't fight the best in every title defense.
Look at Joe Louis's reign there was so many defenses against the so called bum of the month. Holmes also fought some quality opposition in his defenses of the title.

Neither of them get the credit they are due and this is mainly down to the fact they both followed 2 of the most exciting heavyweights ever.

Tyson did have a more impressive performance against Bruno than Lewis but I'd say Lewis beat Tucker more convincingly. Lewis's performance against Ruddock as well was way more convincing than Tyson's against Ruddock.

I'm not saying Holmes was a bum, but please, Holmes above Ali, that's just rediculous. I will say Holmes would not have had such a long title reign if George Foreman hadn't retired.

[Hawkins]

I'm not saying Holmes was a bum, but please, Holmes above Ali, that's just rediculous. I will say Holmes would not have had such a long title reign if George Foreman hadn't retired.

I think that is where you are wrong. Larry Holmes wasn't the fastest guy, but he moved he just didn't stand stationary and let you hit him. George Foreman's greatest success came against guys that come straight forward whereas George would just blast them out with those heavy clubbing blows.

The guys that George has the most trouble with were the ones that moved. Larry Holmes moved and would have frustrated George. Plus, I think Holmes jab was better. Not harder mind you but better. Sharper and more accurate.
George would be plodding forward and Larry would stick him and move, etc.

Plus you can't underrate Larry's whiskers either. Holmes has the perfect style not only beat Foreman but thoroughly frustrate him.

[StarshipTrooper]

You're always going to have people who down Holmes, if for know other reason then he had to fight in the shadow of Ali. He lacked Ali's magnetic personality (love him or hate him, he was a riveting figure), and he lacked the aura of violence that Tyson had (let's face it: Unfortunately there are a lot of people turned on by violence and they loved Tyson because they wanted to see a brutal KO). People who think Larry is overrated need to visit the download section and watch some of his fights (I'd recommend Shavers II, Norton, Weaver I, Snipes, and Cooney).

Poet

[Hawkins]

You're always going to have people who down Holmes, if for know other reason then he had to fight in the shadow of Ali. He lacked Ali's magnetic personality (love him or hate him, he was a riveting figure), and he lacked the aura of violence that Tyson had (let's face it: Unfortunately there are a lot of people turned on by violence and they loved Tyson because they wanted to see a brutal KO). People who think Larry is overrated need to visit the download section and watch some of his fights (I'd recommend Shavers II, Norton, Weaver I, Snipes, and Cooney).

Poet

It's a travesty too. Larry Holmes was a great champion and could hang with/defeat any heavyweight in history on any given night. Larry Holmes' greatest asset was his overall consistent performances.

During his 'second' career you could clearly see how good Holmes was because he was still able to hang with the fighters of this era.

[-CANE-]

I'm not saying Holmes was a bum, but please, Holmes above Ali, that's just rediculous. I will say Holmes would not have had such a long title reign if George Foreman hadn't retired.

You need to read through this thread again and try and find where I said that Holmes was rated above Ali. If you check my rankings I have Ali at no.1 and Holmes at no.4 that is not above. All I said was Holmes was really underated. I do think he had the chin,recuperative powers and the boxing ability to beat Foreman in the late 70,s early 80's.

[LondonRingRules]

All I said was Holmes was really underated. I do think he had the chin,recuperative powers and the boxing ability to beat Foreman in the late 70,s early 80's.

** Holmes is a well known name, having appeared on public airwaves during most every title fight of his career. Most of the public was completely accepting of Holmes, but the glamour of boxing at the time was at welter and middle, so Larry felt neglected and started mouthing off.

People like me started to pay attention and wondered about the quality of his opponents when other prime good heavies like Coetzee, Page, Tate, Tucker, Tubbs, Thomas were making their chops on the public airwaves.

Larry is in most top 10 lists, often in the top 5, so I don't see how you can say he's underrated unless you want him first or second. I believe IBRO has him around the 6th slot which is arguable given the questionable nature of the bookends of his career. He did show some moxie during his comeback and his victory over Mercer may have been his best win over a prime contender, though others may say Cooney, so I guess a case can be made for him in the mid 10.

It's easy to say he could beat Foreman of the late 70s and early 80s when George was retired. Larry was nowhere to be found when George was terrorizing the division, and they are the same age. Instead of whining, Larry should count his lucky stars he got to pick off a shot Ali and faded Norton. He had his hands full enough against limited journeymen types like Weaver, Snipes, and Shavers.

This is like the Tyson argument his detractors always make. Facts are when Tyson started blasting through the division, the 4 yr older Holy was fighting journeymen LHs, and going tooth and nail against a little bitty older Qawi while Lewis was fighting 3 rounders in headgear though he was one year older. Had their people though their older fighters were ready for what Mike was knocking off, they would've been in there. They weren't. Mike would have been beating up Ali and the rest too, except that Mike wasn't even old enough for Kindergarten, so he has a credible excuse for not being in that mix.

Same with Foreman. Larry is not in his class and never will be. Sure, Larry is a tough nut and on his day, maybe could outlast Foreman, and maybe that other Spinks, the Great Leon might whup Larry on his day too. That means nothing to justifiy ranking Leon over Larry. 90% of the time Foreman KOs Holmes within 6 and Spinks is KOed within 3 by Larry.

So unless you think Larry should be rated first or second, stop whining about him being underrated. He thinks he's the best heavy in history and beat the two Mikes, so I say leave that sleeping dog alone. He's only going to bite anyone foolish enough to shake him.