Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[hhascup]

Pretty much how I see this fight and a fight between PRIME Tyson and Lewis.

Henry any chance of seeing some more stats. I'd be interested in seeing how many fights the champions had against ex,current and future champions and their records against them. Also I'd like to see how many top10,5 and 3 contenders they fought while they were champ. If you have these stats I'd be grateful if you could post them.

Here's some of them I have on hand:

Ali fought 37 and won 32
Louis fought 34 and won 31
Patterson fought 24 and won 16 with 1 draw
Liston fought 9 and won 6
Marciano fought 11 and won all 11
Foreman fought 12 and won 8


Because some Heavyweight Champions beat the same opponent more then once, try matching Ali's Top Opponents against any other Heavyweight Champion.

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Boxers that Ali BEAT that were rated #3 or above at one time or another:


1. George Foreman (CH) 40-0-0 vs.
2. Joe Frazier (CH) 30-1-0 vs.
3. Joe Frazier (CH) 32-2-0 vs.
4. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-1-0 vs.
5. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-2-0 vs.
6. Ken Norton (1) 30-1-0 vs.
7. Ken Norton (1) 37-3-0 vs.
8. Floyd Patterson (CH) 43-4-0 vs.
9. Floyd Patterson (CH) 55-7-1 vs.
10. Jerry Quarry (1) 37-4-4 vs.
11. Jerry Quarry (1) 43-5-4 vs.
12. Oscar Bonavena (2) 46-6-1 vs.
13..Jimmy Ellis (2) 30-6-0 vs.
14. Zora Folley (1) 74-7-4 vs.
15. Ernie Terrell (1) 38-4-0 vs.
16. George Chuvalo (3) 34-11-2 vs.
17. George Chuvalo (3) 66-17-2 vs.
18. Ron Lyle (3) 30-2-1 vs.
19. Earnie Shavers (3) 54-5-1 vs.
20. Joe Bugner (3) 43-4-1 vs.
21. Joe Bugner (3) 51-6-1 vs.
22. Bob Foster (CH) 49-5-0 vs.
23. Mac Foster (1) 28-1-0 vs.
24. Karl Mildenberger (1) 49-2-3 vs.
25. Archie Moore (LH-CH) & (1) 184-22-11 vs.
26. Jimmy Young (1) 17-4-2 vs.
27. Cleveland Williams (3) 65-5-1 vs.
28. Doug Jones (2) 21-3-1 vs.
29. Henry Cooper (2) 27-8-1 vs.
30. Henry Cooper (2) 33-11-1 vs.
31. Leon Spinks (CH) 7-0-1 vs.

[The Iron Man]

The keys to beating Ali:

-must be able to slip or parry/block the jab and strike at his right side quickly
-must be either explosive, or have a good jab of one's own
-must throw in quick bursts, as he can't dodge and throw at the same time
-don't allow him to establish a jab rhythm

Mike Tyson had all of these. It would not matter what kind of heart he had. The prime Mike Tyson wouldn't lose it just because he was being taunted by Ali. Cooper, Frazier, Norton, and to some extent, Foreman, all had success landing on Ali, and they didn't move very quickly. In fact, 3 of the 4 gave Ali the first few rounds of each fight, allowing him to set the pace. Tyson was exactly the opposite. He blew a lot of people's plans out of the water by literally running towards his opponent, thus negating side-to-side movement. If you watch, he moved in a lot quicker than Ali danced out. Furthermore, Tyson delivered quick combinations from multiple angles, something Ali didn't face against the fighters listed. They often telegraphed punches, throwing one at a time, which Ali could brace for or lean away from. If you watch the way Ali covers up when pressure, there's a nice little crease right up the center where, if someone is capable of throwing a good uppercut, might find the sweet spot. An uppercut is a lot harder to brace for than a hook, as it snaps the head backwards. Mike threw pretty good uppercuts, I hear.

I don't know...I think that early versions of each fighter may favor Mike. In the second stages of their career(s), I'd give it to Ali.

I totallt agree, however the rematch would result in a different outcome imo, if not the rematch the 3rd fight. As i believe it would be sports greatest rivalry if they were around at the same time. Ali himself said he wouldnt get up if tyson hit him!! if he could catch him tho

[ForemanCrossArm]

I think you've got to look at the boxer during his prime first, then career. Even then, I feel pre-title career is more important than post-title. The climb up the mountain is always harder and more impressive than the fall, slow slide, whatever you want to call it down the mountain.

That's why I will always have Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier so high. Liston was basically the champ YEARS before he even fought (the ducking) Patterson. Frazier won the Gold Medal (While he was HURT, no less) and still started out his pro career (as damaged goods, no less) at basically the bottom and had to fight his way up all the way until the (first) Ali fight!

My Updated Post WWII List Is:
1 - Joe Louis
2 - Sonny Liston
3 - Joe Frazier/Ali
5 - George Foreman/Rocky
-step down-
7 - Tyson/Holmes - Both dominated a weak (IMHO) decade for HW boxing. Holmes would be swapped with Foreman had he gotten to 49-0, and he might've, scorecards aside.. Tyson, had he continued his run in the early/mid-90's and beaten Holyfield and Bowe (Buster look-a-like) you could probably swap him with Foreman. But as it is, Foreman was dominant yet did it for a whole career and Rocky actually did get to 49-0 and that is what seperates those two from these two.
9 - Holyfield/Lennox - Top fighters of the 90's, no REALLY dominant runs (not even counting Lennox's late one, he was so old, you really HAVE to question the competition at that point). The era of 90's HW's is probably better than the 80's, but Holmes and Tyson both looked much better doing what they did then compared to Holyfield/Lewis in the 90's. I think Holyfield could stand alone at 9 with one more title, move into a tie at 7th with 2, 5th with 3, and if he gets all 4 belts (I DOUBT it) then I honestly would put him above Ali/Frazier!

[The Iron Man]

Sonny Liston #2? hmm only had the one title and only 2 defences of his title, throwing away the second Ali fight, technically probably the worst of the greats. I think number 2 is waay too high for him. I have him at 12 or 13. Btw whats the second half of your list?

[ForemanCrossArm]

Like I said, he should've had the title much sooner.. He threw both Ali fights, and that keeps him from being #1. But, if you know anything about what he did, about how good he was, about how amazing he was physically.. It's hard to have him any place other than #1 or #2. The guy is as much myth as he is actual fact. He has more "legend" to him than any of the other ATG's, anyone wanna' argue that?

14" fists, a reach that ranges from 84"-94" inches, an emotionless devil-like face, scars from being whipped like a slave on his back, stature almost like a gorilla (that is not racist at all, just an observation from pictures of him, his arms are so much longer than his torso and so big that they really almost look like legs), plus the fact he had like a 2 foot ****. hahaha

[ForemanCrossArm]

This picture sums up Liston. The only part of his entire body that is actually really tensed are his cheeks from breathing out, that's it! That is what you should notice first. Then you really appreciate the power he had that could HURT Patterson with a blow that was only 15% there at the time of the picture!

This is the (short-lived) greatness of Sonny Liston.

[The Iron Man]

They may be true but they dont qualify him for being a great, mayb he had a long reach but tyson had a rediculous neck. He may have been a relaxed fighter but these dont really qualify you to b an ATG, he achivements are pretty average if u look, one time champ, one defence. I dnt believe he threw both fights, he treid to cheat and win in the first fight, he was just out classed. There have been many great physical specimens, Tyson and Foreman come to mind, and as for being the biggest legend thats foolish. 1 in 10 people will know who he is 10 in 10 will know Tyson or Ali even Foreman. Ask people who was the most ferocious fighter they wont say Liston. His impact on the sport wasnt massive either. He technically wasnt as gifted. Btw can i see the rest of your list?

[hhascup]

I totallt agree, however the rematch would result in a different outcome imo, if not the rematch the 3rd fight. As i believe it would be sports greatest rivalry if they were around at the same time. Ali himself said he wouldnt get up if tyson hit him!! if he could catch him tho

Tyson was asked once about Sugar Ray Robinson being the Greatest Pound for Pound Boxer Ever. He said, Robinson was Great, BUT the Greatest is left for only One Man, and that was Muhammad Ali.

Most people were beaten before the opening bell rung when they boxed Tyson and Liston, Ali wouldn't be. He would be too smart for both of them. Remember the most aggressive Heavyweight Ever was Joe Frazier and he couldn't stop Ali in over 40 rounds.

Here's Nat Fleischer's All-Time List of the Most Aggressive Boxers Ever:

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Joe Frazier
3. Harry Greb

[-CANE-]

Here's some of them I have on hand:

Ali fought 38 and won 33
Louis fought 34 and won 31
Walcott fought 25 and won 12
Patterson fought 23 and won 14 with 1 draw
Liston fought 12 and won 8
Marciano fought 11 and won all 11
Foreman fought 11 and won 8


Because some Heavyweight Champions beat the same opponent more then once, try matching Ali's Top Opponents against any other Heavyweight Champion.


Boxers that Ali BEAT that were rated #3 or above at one time or another:


1. George Foreman (CH) 40-0-0 vs.
2. Joe Frazier (CH) 30-1-0 vs.
3. Joe Frazier (CH) 32-2-0 vs.
4. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-1-0 vs.
5. Sonny Liston (CH) 35-2-0 vs.
6. Ken Norton (1) 30-1-0 vs.
7. Ken Norton (1) 37-3-0 vs.
8. Floyd Patterson (CH) 43-4-0 vs.
9. Floyd Patterson (CH) 55-7-1 vs.
10. Jerry Quarry (1) 37-4-4 vs.
11. Jerry Quarry (1) 43-5-4 vs.
12. Oscar Bonavena (2) 46-6-1 vs.
13..Jimmy Ellis (2) 30-6-0 vs.
14. Zora Folley (1) 74-7-4 vs.
15. Ernie Terrell (1) 38-4-0 vs.
16. George Chuvalo (3) 34-11-2 vs.
17. George Chuvalo (3) 66-17-2 vs.
18. Ron Lyle (3) 30-2-1 vs.
19. Earnie Shavers (3) 54-5-1 vs.
20. Joe Bugner (3) 43-4-1 vs.
21. Joe Bugner (3) 51-6-1 vs.
22. Bob Foster (CH) 49-5-0 vs.
23. Mac Foster (1) 28-1-0 vs.
24. Karl Mildenberger (1) 49-2-3 vs.
25. Archie Moore (LH-CH) & (1) 184-22-11 vs.
26. Jimmy Young (1) 17-4-2 vs.
27. Cleveland Williams (3) 65-5-1 vs.
28. Doug Jones (2) 21-3-1 vs.
29. Henry Cooper (2) 27-8-1 vs.
30. Henry Cooper (2) 33-11-1 vs.
31. Leon Spinks (CH) 7-0-1 vs.

Thanks alot Henry, makes interesting reading. I hate to keep asking but whenever you have the rest, especially Lewis,Holyfield and Tyson would love to see them. Ali's list is very impressive, however how did Doug Jones ever get to no.2?

[hhascup]

Thanks alot Henry, makes interesting reading. I hate to keep asking but whenever you have the rest, especially Lewis,Holyfield and Tyson would love to see them. Ali's list is very impressive, however how did Doug Jones ever get to no.2?

I am going only by the Ring ****zine Ratings. Here's when Jones was rated #2, after he stopped Bob Foster, then Zora Folley, lost to Ali then beat Billy Daniels.


http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.ph..._Ratings:_1963