Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[K-DOGG]

Why is Jack Johnson so high? most of his title defences were over much smaller men or just unimpressive in general.

some people seem to rate Johnson highly for his wins over Langford, Jeanette and McVea, but if theyre such good wins, why isnt Harry Wills ever rated in anyones top 10 when he beat those 3 guys multiple times?

Well, the reason I do rank Jack as high as I do is primarily because of his pre-title wins over McVey, Jeanette, and Denver Ed Martin...because he beat them multiple times as well as the best white fighters of his era with the exception of Jeffries; and that was because Jeffries wouldn't fight him. Wills beat, if I'm not mistaken, Jeanette, McVey, and Langford after they were well past their best days. ...the equivalent of Berbick beating Ali or Tyson, Holyfield, and McCall beating Holmes, if you will.

I don't really count Johnson's win over Langford because Sam was a mere 154 at the time and relatively green. He could have fought him again for the title in 1909, if I'm not mistake; but chose not to because "White people don't want to pay to see two blacks fight for the heavyweight title"...or something to that effect.

Johnson, in my opinion, has to be ranked according to whom he beat prior to winning the title due to the political environment of the time....somewhat similarly to why Sonny Liston ranks highly. Surely no one ranks him in their Top 10 based soley on his title reign, which consisted of two blow out victories over the smallish Floyd Patterson and two humiliating controversial defeats to Muhammad Ali....

Its all about perspective.

[StarshipTrooper]

Well, the reason I do rank Jack as high as I do is primarily because of his pre-title wins over McVey, Jeanette, and Denver Ed Martin...because he beat them multiple times as well as the best white fighters of his era with the exception of Jeffries; and that was because Jeffries wouldn't fight him. Wills beat, if I'm not mistaken, Jeanette, McVey, and Langford after they were well past their best days. ...the equivalent of Berbick beating Ali or Tyson, Holyfield, and McCall beating Holmes, if you will.

I don't really count Johnson's win over Langford because Sam was a mere 154 at the time and relatively green. He could have fought him again for the title in 1909, if I'm not mistake; but chose not to because "White people don't want to pay to see two blacks fight for the heavyweight title"...or something to that effect.

Johnson, in my opinion, has to be ranked according to whom he beat prior to winning the title due to the political environment of the time....somewhat similarly to why Sonny Liston ranks highly. Surely no one ranks him in their Top 10 based soley on his title reign, which consisted of two blow out victories over the smallish Floyd Patterson and two humiliating controversial defeats to Muhammad Ali....

Its all about perspective.

Great post!

Poet

[TheGreatA]

A video I made of the old time heavyweights:

The Heavyweight Champions Part 1
Uploaded by TheGreatA

Machine that video was quality man, nice job. Be sure to post part 2 when your done making it!!

Here's part 2:


Watch The Heavyweight Champions Part 2 in Sports Online  |  View More Free Videos Online at Veoh.com

[The Iron Man]

Again brilliant video Machine! How far are you going to go? until todays champs?

[Smokin'J]

Here's part 2:


Watch The Heavyweight Champions Part 2 in Sports Online  |  View More Free Videos Online at Veoh.com

Can I download it on a better quality?

[TheGreatA]

Can I download it on a better quality?

I'll put it on dailymotion.com which shows the video in better quality, unfortunately it wasn't working when I tried to upload the video yesterday.

I might upload it on rapidshare or megaupload too where it can be downloaded if I have the time.

Again brilliant video Machine! How far are you going to go? until todays champs?

Maybe I'll do a third part which will be about Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis and the other linear champions in between, perhaps the Klitschko brothers as well if I can fit it all in about 20 minutes.

I won't include title holders though.

[The Jackal]

Brill i got to see some stuff i haven't seen great video machine

[LondonRingRules]

Well, the reason I do rank Jack as high as I do is primarily because of his pre-title wins over McVey, Jeanette, and Denver Ed Martin...because he beat them multiple times as well as the best white fighters of his era with the exception of Jeffries; and that was because Jeffries wouldn't fight him.

** Time to get some new reasons since most you cite don't hold water.

McVey was 19-21 yrs old, not prime against a well experienced, prime Johnson. Jeannette was also a 3 fight novice in his first Johnson bout with a win each in the early going. Boxrec recently updated NC/NDs to Johnson "newspaper" wins, but I'm dubious, especially on that 3 rounder, c'mon now!

Johnson put in a poor performance and beat by Hart in his most important bout before Jeffries retired. Also beat by novice Jeannette before Hart beats Root whom Johnson also never faced.

Facts are Johnson didn't meet a host of white contenders in his era, but since many couldn't or wouldn't fight him, I wouldn't downgrade him for that, but more accurately should be stated he beat most of the white contenders while he held the title since that was the only contenders he would fight as champ other than a journeyman black fighter in a French farce of a fight.

When he was in exile and desperate for money in France, there was Langford and Jeannette also in France needing money, yet Johnson took lowball fights against Battling Johnson and Moran rather than bigger money against his prime era contenders.

Johnson could have forced the Jeffries fight earlier had he showed he could beat Jeffries victim Griffin, but Johnson could not handle Griffin or Choynski, so only the Police Gazette was promoting Johnson as a contender to Jeffries as far as I can see.

Yeah, Denver Ed and Gardner were decent wins, but Sam Langford was considered by many if not most as the best heavy of the era, with Joe Jeannette being on par with Johnson at the very least. Of couse at the end there was Wills who was bandied about as a possible opponent to Johnson.

Johnson seems to have been a superior self promoter who ingratiated himself with Fleischer which gave him an advantage over era contenders. Take away the ill-advised Jeffries comeback and the Jack London cry for a white hope, and nobody ever hears of Johnson other than the answer to a trivia question of the first black heavy champion.

I rank him as a HOFer and all time great historical name, but not all time elite heavy of Jeffries, Dempsey, Louis, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Lewis, or yes, even Tyson or others.

[Smokin'J]

I'll put it on dailymotion.com which shows the video in better quality, unfortunately it wasn't working when I tried to upload the video yesterday.

I might upload it on rapidshare or megaupload too where it can be downloaded if I have the time.



Maybe I'll do a third part which will be about Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis and the other linear champions in between, perhaps the Klitschko brothers as well if I can fit it all in about 20 minutes.

I won't include title holders though.

If you can please do it on RS, i'll green k ya ofc

[1SILVA]

10 Greatest Heavyweights

10 Greatest Heavyweights of All-Time
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Larry Holmes
7. George Foreman
8. Lennox Lewis
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Joe Frazier